The Mark of the Beast – What Your Church May Not Be Telling You
By ICA
Revelation 13:16-17, “He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.”
The most popular view today regarding the Mark of the Beast in Revelation 13 is that it is a literal mark physically placed in the forehead or right hand of those who worship Antichrist. Many teachers of Biblical eschatology will even refer to modern 21st century technology and point to some type of tattoo or implantable microchip under the skin when attempting to explain the mark. But why? What is in the text that leads many to believe that this mark must be physical when, after all, virtually every one of us would agree that while the book of Revelation speaks about the dragon, the Beast, the “Whore of Babylon” or the mark of Christ upon the elect etc. that these descriptions are not referring to a literal dragon, a literal animal, a literal prostitute or a literal seal of Christ? This is obviously figurative language pointing to something completely different. On the other hand, so to speak, is there anything from Scripture to indicate for us that this mark need not be a physical mark at all, but could instead be something else entirely?
After careful consideration, I believe that the Mark of the Beast is very likely a spiritual mark just as the mark of Christ upon the elect is spiritual. Since many will resist the suggestion that a figurative Beast will also have a figurative mark, despite the fact that there is nothing in the text stating that the Mark of the Beast must be physical, it is important to rightly divide the Word of God and study, from the whole of Scripture, the significance of the hand and head and how it often relates to man’s condition in the Biblical text.
Arguments Against a Figurative or Spiritual Mark
First, however, let’s begin with arguments that are often issued against a figurative or spiritual mark. Some will contend that if John literally saw a mark in the forehead and hand of those who worshiped the Beast then it must therefore have been literal and physical. This, however, is a poor argument considering that John “saw” the seal of God upon the foreheads of the elect as well, yet everyone agrees this seal is spiritual in nature. Since we know that the seal of God is not literal, “seeing” the mark in the forehead of those who worshiped the Beast likewise does not mean that it must be a physical, literal mark.
Others may argue that because John used the word “charagma” (G5480) for “mark” which means “a stamp, an imprinted mark” that it must refer to a literal mark because it is physical by definition, but this — again — is another example of poor argumentation because John employs many other words throughout Revelation that refer to something physical by definition yet uses them figuratively as symbols of something else entirely. For example:
Revelation 13:17 – the beast – “therion” G2342 – an animal, a wild beast
Revelation 12:3 – Dragon – “drakon” G1404 – a dragon, a great serpent
Revelation 12:3 – horns – “keras” G2768 – a horn; of animals
Revelation 12:3 – crowns – “diadema” G1238 – a diadem; a kingly ornament, crown
Revelation 14:4 – Lamb – “arnion” G721 – a little lamb, a lamb
According to the “charagma = physical mark” argument, the Beast should be literal. The dragon should be literal. The ten horns on the head of the dragon, the crowns, the lamb, etc. etc etc. should all be literal because the words that John used refer to things that are physical by definition. We would all agree, however, that these are figurative. It does not stand to reason that the figurative dragon, with the seven figurative heads, ten figurative horns and a figurative crown upon each figurative horn — a figurative dragon who hates the figurative woman and who gives power to the figurative Beast that opposes the figurative lamb (a figurative lamb who figuratively marks those who follow the figurative lamb with a figurative seal) — puts a literal, physical mark upon those who worship the figurative Beast. The song “One Of These Things (Is Not Like The Other)” comes to mind, doesn’t it? It makes much more sense that the word “mark (charagma)” is used figuratively by John, just as “lamb (arnion)” and “crowns (diadema)” and “horns (keras)” and many others all refer to something physical and tangible that we can identify with. All are symbolic or spiritual, not literal and physical.
The Significance of the Head and Hand, and Being ‘Marked’ in Scripture
As for the significance of being ‘marked’ in the head or hand, let’s review a few portions of Scripture that refer to the head and hand and what these terms mean in those specific contexts.
Exodus 13:9 says, “And it shall serve AS A SIGN to you on your hand, and AS A REMINDER to you on your forehead, that the law of the LORD may be in your mouth; for with a powerful hand the LORD brought you out of Egypt.”
The Lord said that His words are to be as a sign on our hand, and as frontals on our foreheads. The word “as” is “used to express similarity or equality in a specified characteristic, condition, etc., as between one person or thing and another.” It means “like” or “similar to.”
Sign: H226 Strong’s Bible Dictionary “ôth” – Probably from H225 (in the sense of appearing); a signal, as a flag, beacon, monument, omen, prodigy, evidence, etc.: – mark, miracle, (en-) sign, token.
Deuteronomy 6:5-8, ”You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up. You shall bind them AS A SIGN ON YOUR HAND and they shall be AS FRONTALS ON YOUR FOREHEAD.”
Deuteronomy 11:18, ”Therefore you shall lay up these words of mine in your heart and in your soul, and bind them AS A SIGN ON YOUR HAND, and they shall be AS FRONTLETS BETWEEN YOUR EYES.”
James 4:8, ”Come near to God and he will come near to you. WASH YOUR HANDS, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you DOUBLE-MINDED.”
Psalms 119:48, ”My HANDS ALSO I WILL LIFT UP to Your commandments, Which I love, And I will MEDIATE ON YOUR STATUTES.”
Instead of interpreting Scripture to conform to our understanding, we must allow our understanding to conform to Scripture. When Scripture is permitted to interpret itself we’ll then begin to see why the Mark of the Beast need not be literal at all, but is instead simply an identifying mark upon the head or forehead to represent the mind, what you believe, your faith, how you think, and in the right hand to represent actions, works, what you do. There is nothing in the text necessitating a physical and visible mark upon the forehead or right hand as in a microchip or tattoo or anything else that a people or government can physically place therein or upon. It just doesn’t exist.
The Mark of the Beast – A Closer Look
Aside from those who worship the Beast, the only other figure in the book of Revelation directly related to the Beast and described as having a mark or name upon their forehead is one who many Bible scholars and prophecy teachers refer to as the “Whore of Babylon.” This “woman” is described as being carried by the Beast (17:7), and all agree she is figurative and identified by the name upon her forehead. This alone should beg the question: If the name marked upon the forehead of this “woman” is figurative to designate identity, would this not then infer that the Mark of the Beast is itself also a figurative mark to designate identity, especially considering the fact that the mark of God upon the foreheads of the elect is itself also figurative to designate identity (Rev 7:3, Rev 9:4, Rev 14:1, Rev 22:3-4)? Common sense would dictate that, yes, it would.
In Scripture, the seal of God upon the forehead of the elect refers to those who keep the commandments of God and who do not worship the Beast. Conversely, those who have the Mark of the Beast would therefore be identified with those who worship the Beast and do not worship God. This would be the direct antithesis to the mark of Christ and symbolic of worship, of allegiance, of identity to permit all readers of Revelation to know to whom the individual or group belongs to and to whom their allegiance lies. And for those with the Mark of the Beast, it is not with YHWH the God of Israel. Just as those who worship Christ receive the mark of Christ and are “sealed for the day of redemption” (Eph. 4:30), those who worship the Beast receive the Mark of the Beast and will “drink of the wine of the wrath of God” (Rev. 14:9-10) and suffer the same fate as the “Whore of Babylon”: destruction.
The Beast Carries the “Whore of Babylon” – Who Is She?
In chapter 5 of the book of Zechariah we read about a vision that Zechariah was given of a flying scroll and a “wicked woman”. An angel tells Zechariah that “This is the curse that is going out over the whole land” at the appointed time (5:3,11). The Prophet Zechariah then writes that “the angel who was speaking to me came forward and said to me, ‘Look up and see what this is that is appearing.’ I asked, ‘What is it?’ He replied, ‘It is a measuring basket.’ And he added, ‘This is the iniquity of the people throughout the land.’ Then the cover of lead was raised, and there in the basket sat a woman” (Zech 5:5-7). Zechariah continues, “He said, ‘This is wickedness,’ and he pushed her back into the basket and pushed the lead cover down over its mouth. Then I looked up–and there before me were two women, with the wind in their wings! They had wings like those of a stork, and they lifted up the basket between heaven and earth. ‘Where are they taking the basket?’ I asked the angel who was speaking to me. He replied, ‘To the country of Babylonia to build a house for it. When it is ready, the basket will be set there in its place.’” (Zech 5:8-11).
Of particular interest here is the fact that this “curse” is described as a “woman” who would be set up in “Babylon” (Shin’ar). The Babylonian Empire encompassed areas of Saudi Arabia (the birthplace and spiritual homestead of Islam) to the south, to parts of Asia Minor (Turkey) in the north, and from Egypt in the west to Persia (Iran) in the east. This area is today the regional epicenter of Islam. Additionally, one intriguing aspect to the “curse” that goes out over the whole land is that the word for “curse”, and even how it is pronounced, is the Hebrew word “alah”. The Prophet Isaiah, in describing the condition of the earth at the time leading up to the Second Coming of Messiah, says that “the curse [alah] has devoured the earth, And those who dwell in it are desolate” (Isa 24:6). To dwell in the earth does not in and of itself make one “desolate”. But the same cannot be said for those who dwell in the “curse.”
There should be little doubt that the “woman” of Zechariah 5 that would have a house built for it in Babylon directly represents the “Whore of Babylon” referred to earlier. Over 600 years after Zechariah’s vision of the end times, John in Revelation 17 is given a vision of the future and of “the great harlot who sits on many waters … And on her forehead a name [was] written: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH” (17:1,5). Given the fact that the “Whore of Babylon” directly represents the curse (alah), is being carried by the Beast, and is herself marked with a name upon her forehead, does it not stand to reason that the Mark of the Beast would therefore be associated with, or directly related to, the “woman” and “curse” (alah) prophesied by Zechariah and John?
Narrowing It Down and Zooming In
Moreover, let’s also consider the following. The Church of God — the assembly of His people — is called the “Ekklesia” in Scripture and in terms of location is identified with Jerusalem, Israel. This is the epicenter of the Judeo-Christian faith. If the “Bride” of the Lamb is identified as a city called “Jerusalem” (Rev. 21:9-10, “Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife… and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God”) then does it not stand to reason that the “Whore of Babylon” would also be associated with a city of its own? From the preponderance of the evidence that we are given throughout Scripture, the “whore” identified by John in Revelation is associated with the epicenter of Islam itself. And what would that be? The city of Mecca. Whereas the Judeo-Christian faith came out of Jerusalem, Islam came out of Mecca, the birthplace of “Allah’s religion” and the spiritual city of the “Ummah”. She is the “whore of Babylon”. “Babylon” is the Islamic kingdom. The Islamic kingdom is the Beast. (And for what it’s worth, Mecca is known as a “city of seven hills” in the Muslim world).
Babylon: Spiritual Confusion and the Quagmire of Islam
The name Babylon written upon the forehead of this “woman” comes from the Hebrew word “Babel“, which means “confusion (by mixing)”. Since the region of ancient Babylon is today the epicenter of Islam and its god “Allah”, it would be befitting to note a brief history of the founder and ‘prophet’ of Islam, Mohammed, and his self-proclaimed holy book, the Qur’an.
In an effort to entice Jewish and Christian converts to Islam, Islam’s ‘prophet’ incorporated a twisted mix of Jewish and Christian teachings with the existing Babylonian religion of Arabia early in his campaign to gain adherents to his “new” monotheistic Arab religion (formerly polytheistic), even going so far as to claim that “Allah” was the same god that Jews and Christians worshiped [1]. But Jews and Christians would not be deceived and, already familiar with the polytheistic religion of the Romans and their Greek gods, understood full well that just as abolishing all other Greek gods except Zeus would not suddenly make Zeus the God of Israel, neither would abolishing all Babylonian gods except for the moon god “Allah” suddenly make Mohammed’s god the God of Jews and Christians. This complete rejection of Mohammed and his teachings infuriated the ‘prophet’ of “Allah”, resulting in subsequent “revelations” for the Qur’an for the next 20 or so years that grew increasingly hateful and violent against Jews, Christians and all non-Muslims in general. This twisted mixing of Judeo-Christian teachings, Babylonian paganism and vengeful anti-Semitic and anti-Christian hatred is what permeates every crevice of Islam, even today.
The Curse of the “Whore of Babylon”
“In examining ‘curse’ (אלה , alah), its first use appears in Numbers 5 in ‘the adultery test’, the Mosaic methodology for determining the faithfulness of a wife to her husband. If the man suspects adultery, the wife is made by the priest to drink bitter water. If she’s innocent, she will be immune, but if guilty, the ‘water that brings a curse shall go into your stomach, and make your abdomen swell and your thigh waste away.’ (Num 5:21) The actual first occurrence in v19 reads: ‘If no man has lain with you and if you have not gone astray into uncleanness, being under the authority of your husband, be immune to this water of bitterness that brings a curse‘. I think its more than a coincidence to see that first use of the word ‘alah’ in scripture is in connection with an unfaithful woman – is this not perhaps a foreshadowing of the Revelation Harlot riding the Beast?” [2]. And indeed, there should be no doubt. This is a reoccurring theme regarding the “Whore of Babylon”:
Revelation 14:8, “A second angel followed and said, ‘Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great, which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries.”
Revelation 17:2, “With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.”
Revelation 17:4, “The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries.”
Revelation 18:3, “For all the nations have drunk the maddening wine of her adulteries. The kings of the earth committed adultery with her, and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries.”
Revelation 19:2, “for true and just are his judgments. He has condemned the great prostitute who corrupted the earth by her adulteries. He has avenged on her the blood of his servants.”
This is obviously spiritual adultery/fornication. Daniel 11:37-38 reveals that a Last Days ‘Antichrist’ will not regard “the God of his fathers” but instead “he shall honor a god of fortresses; and a god which his fathers did not know he shall honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and pleasant things.” Many Arabs and Muslims are descendants of Ishmael, whose father was Abraham. To not regard “the God of his fathers” implies that this Last Days ‘Antichrist’ will do precisely what Islam does today — completely disregard YHWH the true God of Abraham (and Ishmael, whom God took care of after he and Hagar were sent away), and instead honors a god whom they never knew, one that is forced upon the inhabitants of all nations surrounding Israel in the eschaton, and in increasing measure upon the world, whom they refer to as “Allah”. And today in increasing measure the West, virtually lobotomized by the scalpel of political correctness, bends over backwards to accommodate and embrace her, and have indeed become intoxicated with the “maddening wine of her adulteries.”
Islam – Belief, Behavior, Bureaucracy, and Business

According to Islam, anyone who believes that Jesus was God in the flesh who died on the cross for the sins of mankind, a foundational tenet upon which Christianity is built, is accused of committing the worst of all possible sins called “shirk”. In Islam, this is an unpardonable sin that “Allah” will never forgive. In Christianity it is the key to everlasting life. But although Islam includes religious teachings as a vital, integral part of its core — Muslims must pray five times a day, and the only way for any Muslim to guarantee Paradise after death is to wage Jihad and be killed for the cause of “Allah” — it is not just simply a religious ideology that seeks to assert itself in place of Christ and all other religions. It is also a works-based system that completely encompasses legal, political, economic and even military components as well that seek to replace all other non-Islamic religions, values, laws, governments and economies until only Islam reigns supreme throughout the world [3]. Not only does Islam force its adherents to submit to “Allah” and his ‘prophet’ and demand that you reject any belief that Jesus is the Son of God and all other non-Islamic teachings, it also teaches that “Allah” weighs the good deeds and bad deeds of Muslims on a scale to determine who makes it into Paradise, and who does not.
In contrast, notice how we as Christians only receive a mark on our foreheads when we are sealed by God. Why not in our right hand as well? Unlike Islam, which is based upon works, Christians are saved by grace through faith, by being born again, by believing in the true Jesus of Biblical Scripture who died upon the cross, by being transformed by the renewal of our mind. We are not saved by works, lest any one should boast (Eph 2:9).
No One Can Buy or Sell Unless They Have the ‘Mark’
The biggest question that many will have regarding a symbolic mark is, “If the Mark of the Beast is only symbolic, how can those who do not have a literal mark not buy or sell?” This is often used as well by some as an argument against a figurative mark, arguing that any such mark must be visible and/or physical if it is required in order to buy or sell. However, the answer to this question is much simpler than many may think.
When it comes to the conditions that exist in many Islamic nations for Christians, Dr. Labib Mikhail, a former professor of homiletics from the Faith Mission Bible College in Cairo, Egypt, states that one reason why people are forced to embrace Islam is because of the poverty they will assuredly find themselves in if they do not. “If you don’t embrace Islam you may not find a job; you may not find an apartment, and you’ll be in financial trouble” [4]. Non-Muslims, particularly Christians and Jews, living in Muslim-dominated countries are finding themselves subjected to an ever increasing wave of discrimination, oppression and persecution at the hands of the Ummah (Islamic Community). Even today a Christian in a Muslim country is often treated as a second-class citizen or worse, unable to serve in the military or police, many cannot work or own a business, or even find a place to live. They cannot own a weapon to defend themselves, nor can they testify against a Muslim in court, etc. etc. etc. [5]. And this type of treatment is getting worse, not better. (Update: Read here to find out just how much worse this has become in 2011 alone).
According to NIFCON (Network for Inter Faith Concerns) in Iraq, for example, minorities have faced a tremendous crisis due to their religious identity and are increasingly becoming targets of unprecedented terror. Canon Andrew White, vicar of St. George’s Anglican Church in Bagdad and head of the Foundation for Reconciliation and Reconstruction in the Middle East, testified as a witness in 2007 at a hearing that Christians, in particular, “are being disproportionately targeted” and many Christians are being threatened either to convert to Islam or face execution [6]. In fact, in April 2011, “an Iraqi Muslim scholar issued a fatwa that, among other barbarities, asserts that ‘it is permissible to spill the blood of Iraqi Christians.’ … Among other atrocities, beheading and crucifying Christians are not irregular occurrences; messages saying ‘you Christian dogs, leave or die,’ are typical. Islamists see the church as an ‘obscene nest of pagans’ and threaten to ‘exterminate Iraqi Christians.’” [7].
On one hand, while many are coming face to face with the threat of death for not converting to Islam, other Christians elsewhere are threatened to convert in other ways that, for some, make life just as difficult. In many Islamic nations, for instance, everyone must be given an ID card and this ID card specifies what religion you are, such as “M” for Muslim or “C” for Christian or “J” for Jew. For example, “Christian converts and members of minority religions suffer daily discrimination in Egypt, which restricts their access to work, education, travel and healthcare… Every Egyptian over 16 years old must have an ID card which mentions religious belief”. In fact, “an ID card is required for the most basic needs in Egypt — to open a bank account, get a driver’s licence, obtain a pension cheque, enrol at school, get a job, and even for childhood immunisations…” Some Muslims will convert to another faith other than Christianity, but “Muslims who convert to Christianity account for many more and their treatment is often harsher as they are considered to be apostates, which some Muslims see as punishable by death” [8]. And now, since the fall of Hosni Mubarak and the rise of the ‘Egyptian Revolution’, the situation has worsened dramatically for Jews and Christians. This is where Islamic supremacy veiled in a cloak of ‘democracy’ will take you in a country where Islam is the overwhelming, dominant religion. It’s like Sunni and Shia. It’s like iron and clay. Democracy and Islamism will never fully mix.

Although only Iraq and Egypt were provided as examples, similar conditions exists for Jews and Christians all throughout North Africa and the Middle East or elsewhere where Islam dominates or seeks domination, from the Ivory Coast to Nigeria, Sudan, Ethiopia, Tunisia, Gaza, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Pakistan, Iran, Malaysia, Indonesia and others.
When we begin to understand the dire social and economic conditions that Christians are increasingly facing in Islamic nations we begin to understand that those who will not be able to buy or sell, or are targeted for execution, are those Christians that refuse to submit to Islam both in mind (forehead) and in deed (right hand) yet remain in Islamic nations during the rise of the Beast. How can a non-Muslim “infidel”, who is often threatened with death, buy or sell if they are not permitted to work and earn money, if they are not granted permits to open a business, if the superior Muslim will refuse to sell to the inferior “dhimmi”? As bad as this situation is now, it is only going to get worse.
Chi-Xi-Stigma — In The Name of Allah?
Revelation 13:18, “Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six.”
Someone asked me once if I believed Walid Shoebat’s theory regarding Revelation 13:18 and “666″. Shoebat says that when he first saw the Greek symbols that are often translated as “666″ he immediately recognized that the Greek text closely resembled the Arabic text for “Bismillah”, which translates to “In The Name Of Allah.” His theory is interesting and is something to consider. At the very least, it is prudent to have an open mind to this position, especially given the likelihood that the Mark of the Beast is, in some way, directly related to Islam. Mr. Shoebat and Chuck Missler speak about this possible aspect of chi-xi-stigma here in the following two videos, respectively:
—
—
Although I believe that the mark is primarily a spiritual designator, much like the mark of Christ that is upon the foreheads of the elect, that is not to say, however, that there cannot or will not at times also be a physical indicator that could identify the spiritual designation. Jihadists typically wear the “Bismallah” on the forehead and on the right arm, which itself is significant because the Greek word translated as “right hand” is dexios which not only means the right hand, but also the right side (the right hand side). In fact, even the Hebrew word “yad” means both hand and arm [7].
—
Exegetically and hermeneutically, the “number” (arithmos) of the beast does not necessitate the use of mathematics or gammatria to “reckon” (understand) what it is, something that many prophecy teachers often fall into. The word “arithmos” is used a total of 18 times in the NT, and aside from Rev 5:11 when John refers to the number of living beings he witnesses around the throne of God, every other time “arithmos” is used it is always referring to a group of people. This is significant because it therefore means that the Greek text is better understood as “the multitude of the beast: for it is the multitude of a man.” But what man would that be? There is nothing in the text telling us that the man referred to here must be someone alive at that specific time or an end-of-days Antichrist. So who could this man be? Significantly, as noted above, “chi-xi-stigma” (often translated as “666″) closely resembles the Arabic Bismallah, which translates to “In The Name Of Allah”. However, in order to convert to “Allah’s religion” one must recite the Islamic creed, called the Shahada, by declaring that “There is no god but Allah, and MOHAMMED is his messenger.” Without Christ, there can be no Christianity. Likewise, without Mohammed, there can be no Islam.
Think about it.
If one does not acknowledge the man Mohammed, they cannot become a Muslim. They cannot be counted as part of the Ummah of Islam (Islamic community or nation). The multitude of the Beast, which is the multitude of a man, are therefore those who receive the “Mark of the Beast” upon their “foreheads” and are destined for destruction. This is the direct antithesis to the “great multitude” of Rev 7 and 14, which is the multitude of the Lamb that receives the seal of God upon their “foreheads” (Rev 7:3, 14:1) and are destined for redemption (cf Eph 4:30). One multitude is lost and separated from Christ forever (Rev 14:11), the other is saved and received unto Christ (Rev 7:15-17, 19:6-9, 22:2-5) to be with Him always. In this light, it therefore stands to reason that “the multitude of a man” is not referring to an eschatonic Antichrist, but rather to Mohammed — the founder and prophet of Islam — whose teachings even today continues to force all those under Islamic rule to worship Allah — the god of Islam — who should otherwise be killed if they refuse.
Revelation 13:15, “The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.”
Knowing that the mark of Christ includes a name upon the seal, it therefore makes sense that the Mark of the Beast could also have a name upon its seal as well. If it is plausible that what John saw was Arabic for “In The Name of Allah” for those who worship the Beast — the antithesis of those who worship God and are sealed with the name of Christ written on their foreheads — then in stark contrast those who worship the Beast and follow the religion of Mohammed could have the name of “Allah” upon theirs, and there would be no doubt about who belongs to who.
To Whom Do You Belong?
Revelation 22:3-4, “And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name [shall be] in their foreheads.” (See also Rev 14:1).
The Ekklesia is “Jerusalem” — the Bride of Christ — and is identified with the kingdom of God. The Ummah is “Mecca” — the “Whore of Babylon” — and is identified with the kingdom of the Beast. It is no secret that al-Qaeda and all like-minded Sunni and Shia terror organizations despise the “apostate” kingdom of Saud, not to mention Iran — a state-sponsor of terror — that is well on its way to obtaining nuclear weapons. These are they who “hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire” (Rev 17:16). The “Whore of Babylon” has spread radical Islamic ideology throughout the earth and the Beast that she has ridden throughout the centuries will soon turn on her to devour the hand that fed it.
New insights into Scripture and a review of developments being witnessed on a near daily basis in the Muslim world has lead a growing number of Christians to now recognize that Islam is the religious system of the Last Day’s Antichrist [be it a man or a system] and ideology of the Beast. It is the Adversary’s aim to corrupt and destroy anything that God has created, and this “curse” [alah] is his weapon of mass destruction. There should be no doubt today that we are in the last of the Last Days and as we can see every day in the media, the Judeo-Christian West is being bombarded by the steadily encroaching tentacles of Sharia influence as Islamists take advantage of the West’s accommodating naivete and political correctness by using and abusing the very same democratic freedoms they seek to destroy. While seeking the destruction of the West from within, it is getting increasingly dire for Jews and Christians in the Islamic world. The Beast of this Islamic Empire is coalescing. It is gaining in strength militarily. The Islamist ideology espoused by Al Qaeda and its ilk has metastasized since 9/11 throughout the Muslim world and is seeking to force as many non-Muslims as possible into Islamic submission. Within this kingdom, laws are being enforced or implemented in accordance to Sharia Law to produce your ID card and/or prove you are Muslim in order to buy or sell. If anyone wants to have any semblance of a life they will be forced to convert to Islam if they have not already done so. It may even get to the point where one will be unable to obtain an ID card if they are not Muslim. Want a job? Prove you’re a Muslim. Want a bank account? Prove you’re a Muslim. Want a credit card? A business? A place to live? Prove that you are a Muslim. As radicalization continues to take hold it will also get to the point where either you convert, or you are killed. Indeed, many areas are already at this point today.
Revised 7/13/2012




I will cope with whatever is said against myself, Mike, and, Iamnot….(if I might shorten your your name), but just as Jesus warned against blaspemy of The Holy spirit, when He was accused of doing the works He did by the power of the Devil, we too must be most careful in not accusing God, or His Holy Spirit, when we have disagreements; and we must not lead others to fall into this error, simply because of how we see fit to address eachother – “The tongue is a restless evil,” best we not forget that!
Some accusations have be voiced, that really should make us fear for our lives; some are very quick to say something is demonic, too quick maybe, and it is very dangerous!
Mike made a solid case against modern day tongues. That is not blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is when a person claims that the power of Jesus to perform miracles was not of God but of satan..This is described in Matthew 12:22-32.
What Mike did say, was that as a result of his speaking in false tongues that he had opened himself up to demonic influence.
He didn’t attack you, but he did attack your view. You made no attempt to defend your view on tongues with Scripture rightly divided, but merely responded by trying to impose guilt and shame on him for not holding the same view you have.
Mike demonstrated honesty to admit that he had manufactured false tongues. Your response was nothing less than vindictive, contentious and destructive. You my friend need to examine yourself and see if you are in the faith.Your claim of being baptized in the Spirit, for whatever that claim is worth, is in question here based on your own words and behavior.
Mike made his case, now he is silent. You on the other hand have made repeated posts with a sickening sense of self-assumed authority, puffed up knowledge and false piety. The reason why nobody is responding to your pathetic, self-exalting posts is because we recognize that you are a false teacher.
I hope these may be of help to you Iamnot……..
Probably JOHN chapters 14/15/16/17, reading all of them, is the best place to start, then return to JOHN 14 v 15 to 26, paying particular attention to verses 15 to 21, and in particular verse 20, for this speaks of the day of Pentecost, in the upper room, which is a very important thing to understand.
If you then read ACTS 1 v 4 to 8, and then perhaps, remembering the timeline, read MARK 16 v 15 to 20, remebering that these signs were things to come, oh, and do not be put off by the verses about taking up serpents, or drinking anything deadly, for this is just talking about contending with false teachers, and false prophets – the serpents – “you brood of vipers,” and drinking anything deadly, is talking of their false doctrine – “the poison of Asps is upon thier lips,” so no need to dance with snakes, or drink poision as some do, and put God to the test, as they think they are acting with faith to this Word; this Scripture has never asked anyone to do so! It has just been misunderstood.
So, where did I get to? At that day you will know – the Promise of The Father – O.K., JOHN 16 v 6 to 7. Also read again JOHN 17 v 17 to 26.
O.K, ACTS 2 all. Not the first mention of ‘tongues,’ for Jesus spoke of tongues in MARK 16, and of course we have the prophecy of JOEL; but it was the first event of ‘tongues,’ least of the GIFTS perhaps, but that which is the least of God’s GIFTS, is greater than anything man has!
So, is tongues a witness to anything? Is tongues valid? I do not know in what esteem you hold Joel, Peter, or Paul; we could accuse Peter of telling lies, and being violent, and of course Paul, when Saul, was a murderer (hope for myself and Mike yet, perhaps, hey), but I esteem them, and of course, we have the witness of Jesus, in MARK 16, and I know Jesus wasn’t lying.
So then, the God GIVEN (JOHN 3 v 27) GIFT of ‘tongues,’ was accepted as a witness to the indwelling presence of God’d Holy Spirit, bu Peter – ACTS 2. ACTS 10.
By the way, God had to give The Holy Spirit to this rather special family (SINCERE) of Cornelius, without the laying on of anyones hands (similar to how Mary was chosen for her purity, sincerity), (they were better behaved people than us! See how we have behaved on this site – do think they would have?), because if a Jew had laid hands on a Gentile, to convey The Holy Spirit to them via baptism, it would leave room for people to claim that Peter was in error, and their baptism was invalid. God baptized the first Gentiles, with no intervention from any man, but to preach The Gospel, to make clear to the Jews, that it is His Will.
O.K, Acts 2, and ACTS 10, Peter held ‘tongues’ to be a precious attesting sign of The Holy Spirit, The Promise of The Father, entering into the Gentiles, to dwell within them, as He now dwelt within Peter himself. ACTS 10 v 44 to 48.
And what of Paul? ACTS 19 v 1 to 6 – Paul came across some disciples (meaning followers of Jesus, adherents to His Gospel), and Paul said to the desciples – “Did you receive The Holy Spirit when you believed?” Well I say, the cheek of it, how dare this Paul, is it, how dare he presume to ask such a question, who does he think he is, we are just as good as he is, and he, he, of all people, he used to kill disciples like us, and he asks us if we are right with The Lord, how dare he – but the conversation never went like that did it (it would in 2013 though) –
“We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit,” – simple straightforward honesty – no defencive retort – again, better behaviour from them, than from us – do you think we may just be a little careless?
“John indeed baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him Who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”(MATT 3 v 11)
“When they heard this, they were baptized in The Name of The Lord Jesus. (If you love Me, you will keep My commandments,” – I guess they loved Jesus – true disciples).
“And when Paul had laid hands on them, The Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.”
Now you know why Paul said – “I pray that you might all speak in tongues,” when addressing new fellowships, for people who came to the fellowships to hear the Gospel, and learn about Jesus, then have to at some point, seek to obey The Gospel, obey Jesus, and be baptized – born again. “I pray that you might all speak in tongues” – ie: I pray that you might all choose to receive Christ through baptism, as He has commanded of us.
“And when Paul had laid hands on them.” ACTS 19.
“And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands The Holy Spirit was GIVEN, he offered them money, saying, ‘give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay my hands may receive The Holy Spirit.” ACTS 8 v 12 to 21.
“Do not lay hands on anyone hastily, nor share in other people’s sins; keep yourself pure.”
1 TIMOTHY 5 v 22.
ACTS 18 v 24 to ACTS 19 v 1 to 6.
LUKE 12 v 49 to 53.
The Sheep, the wise virgins, and those correctly dressed for the wedding, are those who have been obedient to be baptized, as commanded, and maintain a sincere love for God.
“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.”
“If we do not love, we do not know God, for God is LOVE.”
The Kingdom of God is within you – Kingdom – power, and authority – The Holy Spirit of God.
I hope that helps Iamnot……….
I have been called worse Joe, I am getting used to it now, I’ll be O.K, I do think Anne deserved an apology from Mike though.
If I was to tell you that I forgive you Joe, you would probably flip your lid, but if you wish me to, I will forgive you, same goes for Mike.
I am fully aware of all of these scriptures. The disciples were given great gifts to spread the gospel. Gifts that if they had not possessed no one in that time period would have believed. I’m aware of the story of Simon who came to Peter claiming he had more powers, if you finish the story you will see how Peter finally handled that. There was a woman that followed Paul also loudly proclaiming that everyone should listen to him, and he grew tired of her and cast the demon out of her. If the disciples had not passed this power on to their disciples, then we would not have Christianity today. It still does not say anywhere in these scriptures that in order to receive the Gift Christ died to give us, we have to speak in tongues. The speaking of tongues if followed correctly and in the manner intended is a gift. Using it the way you suggest, as a condition of salvation is indeed a false doctrine! The gift of tongues, is just that a gift. The chapter in Mathew where Jesus is promising the coming of the counselor, the Holy Spirit, does in no way imply what you do. The Holy Spirit has amazing power. The Holy spirit draws all to the cross and to Jesus, the Holy Spirit convicts of Sin and draws us to repentance. He is not a supernatural toy to display to the world, saying look what great power I have been given and since you don’t have this power you are condemned. I only have this to say, and then I am done with this conversation. You have to believe what the Holy Spirit guides you into. I know, what the Spirit has guided me into, and you WILL NOT take that away from me. You WILL NOT take away my salvation. For there is power in the Blood of Christ, there is power in the Holy Spirit, there is power in the fear of God, there is power in the love of Christ. So with that I will quote Jude and then I’m done with this . Jude 8-10 “In the very same way, these dreamers pollute their own bodies, reject authority and slander celestial beings. But even the Archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, THE LORD REBUKE YOU! May God Bless you and guide you into truth, knowledge and wisdom. I will not respond again. Time is too short, and we need to be concentrating on preparing others to meet the King of King’s he’s coming soon.
I just knew I would forget something, sorry.
Mike, you said:
“no occurrence of tongues is recorded in church history after the writing of The New Testament.”
My name is probably mud by now, so I will point you to another; it is only maybe 300 years ago, give or take, but it is still post New Testament church history, a record of events written by a Mr John Wesley – take a look at web page:
John Wesley – Quotes On The Manifestations Of The Holy Spirit.
Or his book – ‘The More Excellent Way.’
p.s – is that really what you think 1 CORINTHIANS 12 v 2. is saying Mike?
One last thing, when was the very very first Spiritual intervention by God, to give people a different tongue – GENESIS 11 v 1 to 8. BABEL. Given for a different reason, but still given by God, for His purpose. As yet, I have found nowhere in Scripture, that says the Devil has ever created a tongue; created the lies upon our tongues yes, but not created a new tongue; whether Satan can or not I do not know, but we have Scripture to help us stand firm against the lies Satan puts upon the tongues of men – that poison of Asps upon the lips of the serpents. MARK 16.
As we cannot understand tongues, it is difficult for it to mislead us, for it is the interpretation of tongues, and the doctrine men present to us that we must weigh, using Scripture as our guide, helped by The Helper, The Holy Spirit of God.
Just a thought.
Oh I see. Your pentecostal. Not to offend Bro. But not needing an interpreter is the Real proof of the Holy spirit! On Pentecostal day there was NO unknown tongue! His was a cloven tongue. Everyone heard it in there own language even in there own dialect. This is religion! The only time you need an interpreter is when you go to another land, and God said take two! The reason he told them to take the interpreter is because people wouldn’t even know when to say Amen!!
Has anybody ever wondered why Paul used the phrase “In Christ Jesus,” or “Christ in us,” or “In Christ;” well it is because of what Jesus said – “At that day (Pentecost) you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.” JOHN 14 v 20 to 23. JOHN 17 v 17 to 26.
“Sanctify them by Your Truth, Your Word is Truth.” “You must be born again…….” JOHN 3 v 1 to 21. MATTHEW 3 v 1 to 17.
“He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.” MARK 16 v 15 to 20.
2 CORINTHIANS 13 v 5 – 6. “Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you? – unless indeed you are disqualified………..”
How can we test ourselves?
1 CORINTHIANS 14 v 4.
I hope people understand that I am defending the God given gift of tongues, and exclaiming the need to be baptized.
We all have to work out our own salvation.
1 JOHN 2 v 27 “But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you………”
MARK 16 v 10 to 20. “…the Lord working with them and confirming The Word through the accompanying signs.”
JOHN 14 v 1 to 12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.”
It is my own opinion, that the miraculous works that accompanied the disciples, which revealed to others, that they had the very same anointing of The Holy Spirit as Jesus Himself (Jesus, The Firstborn of many), was the reason that the desciples were first called “christians,” and not just “disciples,” as the word christian referred to The Anointing – they were the ‘anointed ones,’ as revealed by the works themselves – “Christ – ian,” – anointed ones.
The Christ – The Anointed One.
‘Christ – ian’ – anointed ones.
Disciple means follower, christian has never meant follower, though today we do use the word to mean believer, or follower, which is acceptable only if we have been baptized as directed by Scripture; I called myself a christian, many years before it was ever true of me.
The word ‘christian’ was probably used as a mocking retort, but the word, which became a name used to identify a group, reflected their preaching, and activities – which was all about The Anointed One (Jesus and The Gospel of His Father), and The Anointing – “I have a baptism to be baptized with.”
1 JOHN 2 v 18 to 29.
It is a sobering thought that people who began with John, attracted by The Gospel, or something they felt they saw within The Gospel that was attractive to them, perhaps personal gain, such as wealth, or perhaps influence over others, to gain in kind; when they refused to adhere to Scripture, and left, probably to maintain some kind of claim to faith, and set up a new group, or denomination, John referred to them as antichrist.
The Devil is the father of all lies, and it is by lies, that Satan enters the church, he achieves it through ‘lawlessness,’ and he finds those who will follow him. 2 THESSALONIANS 2 v 1 to 15.
The Wheat and the tares grow together – “Lawlessness.” MATTHEW 7 v 13 to 27.
MATTHEW 24 all.
LUKE 7 v 24 to 35.
The final comment I would like to make, is about the ‘lawless one;’ if you read JOEL chapters 1 and 2, and see how The Word of God is bit by bit being eroded, taken away from God’s people by false teachers, and in particular, towards the end, by the ‘nothern army,’ which I sincerely believe to be North America, from where is coming the most terrible corruption within the Christian Church to date, false teaching, along with false signs and wonders of the ‘toronto blessing,’ – “let the ministers to The Lord, weep between the porch and the altar, let them say, “spare Your people O Lord,…” – we have a lot to regret don’t we.
But God does restor His people – but not until after He destroys the ‘northern army;’ now read MATTHEW 13 v 37 to 43 mainly, but read up to verse 52.
Now read MATTHEW 13, v 41 to 42, and read JOEL 2 v 17 to 32, and read JEREMIAH 25 v 29 to 38.
Many of those ‘slain in the spirit’ today, may at some point be ‘slain’ by The Lord for real, and when all causes of offence are removed from His Kingdom (MATTHEW 7 v 13 to 27), there will be no more hinderment to God’s Spirit. Read JOEL 2 v 28 to 32.
2 THESSALONIANS 2 v 1 to 15.
MATTHEW 13 v 37 to 52.
PETER 4 v 17 to 18. “For the time has come for judgment to begin at the House of God…..”
And whilst in the book of 1 PETER, I will prove to you that what I said about the dead hearing the same preaching as we have, about the baptism with The Hioly Spirit, and needing to make the same sincere, obedient, choices as we are – read 1 PETER 3 v 18 to 22. ch 4 v 6.
EPHESIANS 4 v 8 to 9. JOHN 5 v 21 to 29.
May God bless His Word to all of us.
David.
One very last thing that I cannot avoid mentioning – the apostasy – the falling away – what exactly does it mean?
Does it mean a decline in numbers? No, not necessarily, for the son of perdition, sits as God in the temple of God, and as so, influences people – but what if that temple, was not a building, but was in fact the body of the church – us.
“Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that The Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is Holy, which temple you are.” 1 CORINTHIANS 3 v 16 to 17.
“Sits as God in the temple of God.” 2 THESSALONIANS 2.
I have often wondered if the false sign and wonder of the ‘toronto blessing,’ which is a spiritual influence that really ‘possesses’ the minds of those people who accept, and welcome it as the Spirit of God (as do the lawless doctrines), may well be how he “sits as God in the temple of God,” and we know the son of perdition, to be a son of the Devil, just as Jesus told others that they were the children of the Devil, for they did his will, even though they were ‘religious’ people.
I do not know if the son of perdition is an individual, or if he is a metaphorical son, in the same way that God’s Church is a metaphorical ‘Bride.’
I do not know if the temple in which the son of perdition will sit, is a physical temple, a building; or a metaphorical temple, us, still a real, physical temple, but a spiritual temple, not made of stone, as indeed we are to The Holy Spirit Himself.
We know that if we love God, we will keep His commandments, and if we do not love God, we will not keep His commandments, so we clearly, and easily understand what is meant by – “…because they did not receive the love of The Truth, that they might be saved.” JOHN 14.
So, we too understand what is meant in MATTHEW 24, that “the love of many will grow cold.”
We know from MATTHEW 24, and from JOEL 2, that the end comes, only once The Gospel has been preached, and preached accurately, to every Nation of the World, which will then enable God’s Spirit to be poured out in baptism upon all who will believe (the delay we are faced with, the hinderment, is false teaching, which means people cannot be saved); it began on the Day of Pentecost, but it has not yet reached its fullness.
1 PETER 3.
“The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repetance.”
Love growing cold, the falling away of the church, lawlessness – it all speaks of one thing only – disobedience – not obeying God’s commandments – “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My Word……………….he who does not love Me does not keep My Words.” JOHN 14.
What is the very foundation of Jesus’ Gospel? – BAPTISM – Jesus gave His Life to achieve it for us, and yet it is corrupted, and rejected, by so very many groups that go by the name of ‘Christian,’ – this is the apostasy of the church, along with the corruption of the fruits of the Spirit, that is so rife among those churches that promote the ‘toronto blessing,’ that encourage a huge love for money, and possessions, pride, evil suspicions of others, false accusations, hatred, unrighteous anger, and deceit – disobedience to God’s commandments.
JOHN 3 all.
“You must be born again.”
“Most assuredly (definitely), I say to you, unless one is born of the water and the Spirit (MATTHEW 3 v 11), he cannot enter the Kingdom of God.”
“God so loved the World that He gave His Only Son, that whoever believes in Him (believes His witness – what He has told us – JOHN 3 v 9 to 15) should not perish but have everlasting life.”
But do we believe Him? LUKE 7 v 24 to 35.
“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.” MATTHEW 7 v 13 to 14.
MARK 16 v 15 to 20.
LUKE 12 v 49 to 53.
MATTHEW 10 v 32 to 39.
David.
It is funny you ask what exactly the Apostasy meant then quoted ”
…because they did not receive the love of The Truth, that they might be saved.” JOHN 14.
What it means is a defection from truth! That is WHY the love of many will wax cold. And yes the son of perdition is Satan himself. According to Dr. Bullinger in Mat 24 when it speaks of the Abomination of desolation standing were it ought not. What Christ is referring to is a wing of the temple. We will just have to wait and see.
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/96a-03.htm
The Toronto Blessing
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCeVZ6e2T0E?rel=0&w=420&h=315%5D
1 cor. 14 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed no, one understands him; he utters mysteries with this spirit. But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort. He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. I would like every one of you to speak in tongues but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified. Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what GOOD WILL I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? Again if the trumpet does not sound a clear call who will get ready for battle? So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. Undoubtedly there are all sors of languages in the world, yet onoe of them is without meaning. If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me. S it is with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church…. Tongues then, are a sign NOT FOR BELIEVERS, BUT FOR UNBELIEVERS; prophecy however is for believers, not for unbelievers. So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say, that you are out of your mind? But if an unbeliever or someone who does not understand comes in while everybody is prophesying he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner and will be judged by all and the secrets of his heart will be laid b are. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming God is really among you!
Please tell me Iamnot…….., if someone mocks the God GIVEN gift of tongues, and declares the gift to be false, or even demonic, would you call them a believer? I know I would not – please bear in mind tonges is a gift from God, it is, believe it or not, after all the things people say about tongues, it is nevertheless, still a MIRACLE – but one we have become entirely bored with it would seem, even though there is a rather obvious lack of any other miracles that people maybe a little more in favour of.
Tongues is not a sign for believers Iamnot……., for one very very very very very simple reason; remembering when Paul was writing, and who he was writing to; they all believed, were baptized with The Holy Spirit, as commanded by Jesus, and spoke in tongues themselves, to attest to their baptism. They had responded to Jesus’ basic, fundamental, commandment to repent and be baptized, and now as born again people, baptized with The Holy Spirit – ‘Christians,’ they needed to grow in their faith, and they have Scripture, and prophecy, to continue to teach them. But just what good is any prophecy to them, if they will not believe it? Prophecy is given by God to help those who will believe Him; it means nothing to anyone who will not – until, perhaps, they have a change of heart.
We seem to be stuck on a point raised by Paul, because of bad behaviour within one single church – Corinth, and I know people still misuse the gift of tongues, because of lies within the Christian Church; but it is not God’s fault, it is not the fault of The Holy Spirit, Who enables the gift of tongues.
We are told to pray in private by Jesus, whether in our normal tongue, or whether praying by the power of The Holy Spirit; prayer is misused, grossly misused, but that is our fault, not God’s.
For example Iamnot……..: God has said in His Word when addressing problems with His people – “I will not hear their prayers.” and “Their prayers are an offence to Me,” a stench beneath His nostrils.
So then, should we condemn all prayers, and praying, just because God condemns the prayers of the insincere? No, of course not.
Why then do we accuse the GOD GIVEN GIFT OF TONGUES, when it is the individual at fault?
Paul said within the chapter of Corinthians that you have cited Iamnot……..; Paul said in 1 CORINTHIANS 14 v 18 to 19:
“I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all; yet in church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.”
So we see where the error is don’t we!
Do you think Cornelius and his family would have recieved the baptism of The Holy Spirit, if Peter had simply prayed in tonges infront of them – well they would not have, for they would not have been able to open their hearts and minds to God’s teaching, and accept it, so accepting Him, unless they had understood what was being said to them; God can make us do nothing to welcome Him, we have to choose to welcome, and invite Him, upon our hearing His good news, His Own welcome, and invitation.
Tongues is misused, so is our normal prayer, so should we blame God, and stop all praying.
You seem to be so very badly mixed up Mike; it tells us in ACTS 2 v 5 to 13, that the devout men from every Nation under Heaven, could hear the Disciples as they prayed in tongues, speaking languages that were their own; it does not tell us that the Disciples themselves knew what they were saying, just that those from far of Nations did.
We were all British in our fellowship; I know a little French, and Polish, Mike, but you can be sure, we need interpretation, yes, just as Scripture says.
ACTS 2 v 13 – and still there are those who mock.
As it happens, I was brought up in a Methodist church, christened, and confirmed. We also met with the local baptist church, where I asked to be baptized at the age of 23. The Baptist minister tried hard to talk me out of being baptized in water, because I had been christened as a baby, and he felt my baptism would be of offence to those within the Methodist church I attended. I held the minister accountable to God’s Word, and I was baptized in water, of my own choice.
Myself, and two friends were not much liked because of our desire to obey baptism, and I stopped attending either fellowship, going nowhere until my two friends who had also left those fellowships, invited me to attend the fellowship they had started attending, led by an ex Methodist minister.
Everyone one was baptized with The Holy Spirit in this fellowship of just around 12 people; one of my friends from the previous Methodist church had actually been baptized with The Holy Spirit prior to joining this fellowship, when she was in Oxford University, and tried to talk about the need to be baptized with The Holy Spirit whilst in the Methodist, and Baptist churches, as we led a Bible study; but no one was interested though, and the three of us left. It was then that we latter joined the other fellowship. Much has happened since then.
“ACTS 2 v 5 to 13, that the devout men from every Nation under Heaven, could hear the Disciples as they prayed in tongues, speaking languages that were their own;”
Sorry Bro It’s not me that is mixed up! Read what you wrote yourself! “Speaking languages that were their OWN!!!
This is what I said. It is what the Bible says! I stand on my statement. This is the real proof of the Holy Spirit. It will happen again. I am not saying it didn’t happen. I am say you do not understand just how big of a miracle that really took place that day!
Let me explain what really happened that day. Short version…
On Pentecostal day there were many people there from many different parts that spoke many different languages. They ALL heard it in their own dialect. ALL OF THEM! It was only said once and they all understood it. This is proof of the Holy Spirit!! That simple guys.
I don’t wish to argue with you about this. Believe what you will. But beware, religion is a dangerous thing. What may seem Holy can lead astray!
Iamnot…….. I have read some of the web addresses you posted, thank-you.
I have tried and tried to warn my friends about the ‘toronto blessing,’ to little avail it would seem, and I have cried and cried for them; but I have to accept that if God sends (permits) a powerful deception to cause those who do not love The Truth, to believe the lie, then I have to accept that it is serving God’s purpose, of winnowing His Church. Some people are coming out of this deception, and recognizing the error. DANIEL 11 v 35.
DANIAL 12 v 26 to 37. JOEL 2 the northern army. JEREMIAH 25 v 29 to 38. MATTHEW 24.
I have written to several different churches, in several different Countries, over the last three years, and to many authorities in England, including our Government – I have tried to do what I can, and others are doing what they can to just try and cause people to search Scripture, that is all I ask people to do, just search The Scriptures, and test what we are being told.
Iamnot………., I have often wondered if Satan is having some kind of laugh at our expense, including the laughter seen in some meetings; I believe the manifestations can be described as a type of possession, and so indeed, the laughing may well be nothing more than Satan laughing at us, through us.(people).
All of the other manifestations of the ‘toronto blessing,’ can be likened to Biblical references, other than what people may claim them to be:
Roaring like a lion – the lion of Judah some may say, well I would say “Satan roams around like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.” 1 PETER 5 v 8.
Howling like dogs – dogs returning to their vomit, or perhaps the wolves dressed as sheep.
Hopping like frogs – “and I saw three unclean spirits like frogs…” REV 16 v 13 to 14. or perhaps the locusts of JOEL.
Slithering on the floor – the serpents.
Every manifestation I have heard of, every single one, can have a meaning other than what the proponents of the ‘toronto blessing’ may try and claim it represents.
Even hooting like owls is indicative of desolation in Scripture.
Sobering thought isn’t it.
David seems to believe he alone is right, and in his prideful arrogance, encourages others to search the Scriptures…but when that conflicts with his own view, he resorts to personal attacks. So far, he has called Mike “mixed up” and earlier tried to impart blame and fault to him for something he himself continues to do. He continues to pull Scripture out of context to imply Mike is a mocker, when in fact all Mike did was present a reasoned, historical case against modern day tongues. When Mike exposed his hypocrisy, he did not repent but reinforced his denial by suggesting that Mike apologize to Anne. This is a clear case of clinical denial, otherwise known as projection and is indicative of cognitive dissonance. David wants to stand against the spiritual abuses of others, but when it comes to his own spiritual abuses of tongues, cannot face the fact that he himself is just as guilty. His only recourse is to lash out at those who expose him while trying to maintain an air of assumed knowledge or Scriptural justification by listing many Scriptures out of context, compounding his error by committing eisogesis. It is obvious that David has little understanding of the historically accurate context for the proper use of the gift of tongues that Mike presented, What he does have, is an indoctrinated mantra of tongues and baptism which eerily smacks of dogmatic United Pentecostalism. Of note, David presents a veneer of warning others, but it is his own tongues-based legalism and his own golden calf of baptism that others should be wary of. He would have us believe that babbling incoherently in false tongues is somehow more led of the Spirit than the obviously fleshly barking like dogs,hopping like frogs and rolling on the floor. He is quick to pull Scriptures out of context and attribute these fleshly, false acts being evil, but of course, his own babbling in false tongues is excluded. A dog returns to its vomit.
Here’s something I have but am still trying to piece together, so maybe a little premature! The beast that comes out of the sea is the English founders of America! The mouth of a lion – English speaking. Body of a leopard- the black slaves they brought to the country that was their body of physical labor. The feet of a bear – the native Indians that they crushed in war, the feet also meaning connected with the land! The women on the beast is Christs church not a completely false religion, because it fools even Gods elite- if possible! The false church could be the pentecostal religion started in los angeles – reason they call fire from heaven in view of all men! The tongues fit this description! It is falsified!
The mark of the beast on the right hand or the forehead is the act of being slain in the spirit. So one exercises the gift from his hand or one receives from the forehead! It is actually the spirit of Satan masquerading as god. He sets him self up as god in the temple! The human temple of god and pretends to be god! No one can buy or sell without the mark. Is that no-one can get or receive salvation and gods gifts without submitting to this erroneous teaching which is made by man’s imagination, so it is a man made father son holy spirit! and is false and not gods working but a false Christianity. based on error and ones own ego for spiritual greatness! Like the Babylonians whom tried to build there own way to heaven and god caused them to speak in different tongues so history is representing itself! Read the whole of Isaiah 28. There is more in Isaiah also that talks about tongues and how its users stumble like they are drunk but are not drunk from wine! The ten heads with thirteen crowns – 3 extra crowns than heads represent a fake presence of the father son and holy spirit, which ain’t really there! Hollywood is in los angeles and is the city of harlots, many woman prostitute themselves to get into acting, and also film brings pornography to our screen as well as other corrupted messages! Even the first internet was switched on from here. Interesting it is called the city of angels! Even in zechariah 5 the basket with the women(church) of wickedness was taken by angels to build a house for it in babylon, and before this is described the flying scroll that goes out to every land which is a curse that enters every thiefs home and destroys it, those whom steal and swear falsely in the lords name!
This is what i have been getting so far, but yet to fully decipher everything and maybe have holes! I am truly worried about blaspheming the holy spirit by calling a group of Christians of the devil so i am leaving it open as not completely sure but certainly have some suspicions, because all these years i have tested their fruit and its bad! I myself in early days fell to its draw, and recognize the error of my ways! I was literally a false prophet in those days and so it takes one to know one! I ask all Christians at all times to stay truthful and one should never fabricate truth even if it will save a soul in the process – you will not have the Lord’s backing! And it is not of god ever to lie or exaggerate it is of the evil one!
Hi Dave AU, thank you for your comments. Pentecostals don’t behead other Christians. Moreover, the land of Shinar (Babylon) has never been in North American. It has always been the Middle East.
Again about saying the above, this may or may not be from the Lord. I could be just raving the imaginations of my mind. Interestingly Job’s three friends convincingly spoke in the name of the Lord! And it wasn’t the Lord at all! When God finally did speak the earth shook! This has not happened to me, so don’t take what I say as true fact. Only time will tell what is right!
Thank-you for your reply, very few even bother giving me the time of day, which tells me you are considerate and have wisdom by testing things before you come to a conclusion! I am not after heads of Christians, just making some observations that maybe valid! Maybe even put a head on some Christians where their seems to be a lack of! So just stating my concerns, if I didn’t care, I would just let them continue on their strayed course, if of course it is a strayed course!
It is hard to be correct 100 percent of the time as a man never mind as a child of God reflecting the very nature of God! So that leaves me and everyone else vulnerable to some degree i guess. I believe Babylon refers to any city that has a likeness to the original city! I think for this time now it fits, but as time changes and kingdoms just maybe the original will rise again! But that would make it a fair stretch into the future! So at that time i would see how the puzzles fit that scenario. I hope for Pentecostals I am wrong I truly do! And I think from the diversity in their factions that some maybe ok, but their are some really bad groups, by their behaviors, are nothing short of, as Isaiah puts it, that they will go and fall backward, be injured and snared and captured! Look there are many interpretations, the Catholic church is one of them and has some really strong points! I just haven’t heard this, so thought i will put it down, so it might be flagged, and seriously looked at! And if people can find fault with what i say, then they have nothing to worry about, and establish their foundations and knowledge of scriptures in the process!
Obviously when two Christians don’t agree, at the very least one is wrong, so I pray God will work quickly to restore whom-ever it is, into truth! Every Christian has an advantage over me, that I was walking in darkness with no light for a long time! So I might be still in that darkness, the only problem is that God gave me a strong vision of a flower opening up to the sun when it rose, and God said you will know the true light as the flower knows the sunlight! And an elder said that’s interesting I had a vision of you in a dark room trying to find the light switch but suddenly the whole room went light like day! So maybe everyone’s safe and I am still in darkness, however I might now have had the truth revealed to me! This is what we must test!
may god bless you and keep you out of harms way, and your decisions be more than a toss of a coin.
From dave.
There is much debate here going through the comments about the identity of the beast, it could possibly be Islam, Islam could be lumped with the false prophet that was said to come shortly after His death, The United Nations and EU or any organisation of Nations can be called the beast. So we have a false prophet (followers) of Muhammed, even the founders Catholics are guilty of spiritual adultery, beacuse Jesus not Peter is the chief cornerstone. My conjecture is that these forces will fight against eachother, Islam as a religion, including their kabba, symbol of their Idolatrous past will be wiped out. The time of Our Lord’s coming will be in a time of peace, as in the days of Noah. Terrorism will have died out by then, people will start relaxing and quite sure of a Godless World which they find more acceptable, christians believing in the return of Jesus will be regarded as jokers, just as Noah must have been made fun of. It is then that Jesus comes, for a rapture for those seeking His presence. At the times of the end do most nations gather together against Israel. Then the plagues mentioned in Egypt take place all over again. As for sin against the Holy Spirit is nothing but constant rebellion against the fact that the Blood of Jesus was shed for all mankind on the cross, and most people in general refuse to accept Him as their Saviour, christians and non-christians alike. Christianity as the only faith and way is already regarded as a joke even by the pope, thats why he is promoting ecumenism believing there are many paths to God, and encourages inter-faith meetings and prayers.
Andre, the Bible strongly supports the view of a middle-eastern, Islamic beast. Daniel chapters 2, 7,9,11 and 12 all have support for an Islamic beast. In keeping with sound hermeneutical principles of Scripture interpreting Scripture, the references in Daniel are mirrored in the Revelation too. Consider this one (of many), examples. Rev 20:4 describes how in the end times, believers will be executed for their faith in Christ…by beheading. There is only one religion in the world today that has for its entire history and up to today, beheads Christians and Jews. Islam.
(Rev 20:4) Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years……..”
Though it is generous of you to want to include Catholicism as part of the “beast” system, the sad fact is, there is no textual warrant for it when the Islamic view is given equal consideration. The context of events do not take place in Europe, but in the middle east. There is simply no motivation for a Catholic pope to be antichrist, at least not any more than he would be today.
Your conjecture that these “forces” will fight each other is supported in the Bible by the way. The Bible describes how the enemies of Israel will turn on each other in…
(Eze 38:21) “I will call for a sword against him on all My mountains,” declares the Lord GOD. “Every man’s sword will be against his brother.
(Zec 14:13) It will come about in that day that a great panic from the LORD will fall on them; and they will seize one another’s hand, and the hand of one will be lifted against the hand of another.
(Rev 17:16) “And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire.
Ezekiel and Zechariah passages take place in Israel. Rev 17:6 is referring to the destruction of the “harlot”, which there is Scriptural support for the “harlot” being Saudi Arabia. There is a motivation for Muslims to destroy Muslims in Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is Sunni. Shiite’s have long had a desire for revenge for the events that took place at the battle of Karbala. This desire for revenge fuels the present day violence between Sunnis and Shiites. They are united against Israel and Christianity, but divided by their desire for violence against each other. This is what Daniel is describing as a “divided kingdom” in Dan 2:40-41.
As for your contention that “terrorism will have died out”, that is not what the Bible shows. Instead of an increase in peace, the Bible shows an increase in both spiritual deception and physical violence in the end days. Jesus warns of spiritual deception in Matthew 24:4, Paul warns about spiritual deception in 2 Thess 2:2-13 and Jesus again warns of spiritual deception to the churches several times in the Revelation. The Bible shows an increase in violence in the last days, days like the days of Noah, which were filled with unchecked murder and violence. Likewise in Matthew 24:9 and the Revelation, chapter 6 describes violence and destruction like the world has never known. Hardly a trend of greater peace and harmony.
Christians are considered jokes by many today, but Christianity is no joke to Islam. It is a threat. Christians are actively hated by Muslims all over the world. Right now approximately 1/4 of the earth is Muslim
(Rev 6:8) I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth.
Even if, out of the 1.7 billion Muslims of the world, only 1/2 of 1 percent were considered “radicalized”, that would imply that 85 million Muslims want you dead, right now. It is evident to me that in the end days, there will be a worldwide persecution of Christians, death and destruction on a scale that has yet to be known, but the Bible clearly describes it in Rev 6 and in other places. Islam itself has for its entire history been responsible for the untimely deaths of over 270 million people. Starvation and disease always accompanies the death of bodies from wartime destruction.
Andre, continue to investigate end times from an Islamic end times perspective. This blog of ICA’s will be very helpful. I would also reccomend some books that would serve as a basic commentary to Biblical end times events from this perspective, namely, Joel Richardson’s “Mideast Beast” and Jack Smith’s “Islam: Cloak of the Antichrist”. But these are only helps. Read your Bible. If you have a position on end times, make sure your assumptions have a solid Biblical, textual foundation. Warn others. Judgment is coming. Repent from sin and believe on Jesus while you still can.
666 = the number of the antichrist who appears at the 6th trumpet, 6th. scroll and 6th vial/
This paragraph will help the internet people for building up new
website or even a blog from start to end.