Home > Radical Islam, Theology and Eschatology > The Mark of the Beast – What Your Church May Not Be Telling You

The Mark of the Beast – What Your Church May Not Be Telling You


Revelation 13:16-17, “He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.”

A literal and physical mark, or something else?The most popular view today regarding the Mark of the Beast in Revelation 13 is that it is a literal mark physically placed in the forehead or right hand of those who worship Antichrist. Many teachers of Biblical eschatology will even refer to modern 21st century technology and point to some type of tattoo or implantable microchip under the skin when attempting to explain the mark.  But why?  What is in the text that leads many to believe that this mark must be physical when, after all, virtually every one of us would agree that while the book of Revelation speaks about the dragon, the Beast, the “Whore of Babylon” or the mark of Christ upon the elect etc. that these descriptions are not referring to a literal dragon, a literal animal, a literal prostitute or a literal seal of Christ? This is obviously figurative language pointing to something completely different.  On the other hand, so to speak, is there anything from Scripture to indicate for us that this mark need not be a physical mark at all, but could instead be something else entirely?

After careful consideration, I believe that the Mark of the Beast is very likely a spiritual mark just as the mark of Christ upon the elect is spiritual.  Since many will resist the suggestion that a figurative Beast will also have a figurative mark, despite the fact that there is nothing in the text stating that the Mark of the Beast must be physical, it is important to rightly divide the Word of God and study, from the whole of Scripture, the significance of the hand and head and how it often relates to man’s condition in the Biblical text.

Arguments Against a Figurative or Spiritual Mark

First, however, let’s begin with arguments that are often issued against a figurative or spiritual mark.  Some will contend that if John literally saw a mark in the forehead and hand of those who worshiped the Beast then it must therefore have been literal and physical. This, however, is a poor argument considering that John “saw” the seal of God upon the foreheads of the elect as well, yet everyone agrees this seal is spiritual in nature. Since we know that the seal of God is not literal, “seeing” the mark in the forehead of those who worshiped the Beast likewise does not mean that it must be a physical, literal mark.

Others may argue that because John used the word “charagma” (G5480) for “mark” which means “a stamp, an imprinted mark” that it must refer to a literal mark because it is physical by definition, but this — again — is another example of poor argumentation because John employs many other words throughout Revelation that refer to something physical by definition yet uses them figuratively as symbols of something else entirely. For example:

Revelation 13:17 – the beast – “therion” G2342 – an animal, a wild beast
Revelation 12:3 – Dragon – “drakon” G1404 – a dragon, a great serpent
Revelation 12:3 – horns – “keras” G2768 – a horn; of animals
Revelation 12:3 – crowns – “diadema” G1238 – a diadem; a kingly ornament, crown
Revelation 14:4 – Lamb – “arnion” G721 – a little lamb, a lamb

Art used by Pat Marvenko Smith, copyright 1992.

Art used by Pat Marvenko Smith, copyright 1992.

According to the “charagma = physical mark” argument, the Beast should be literal. The dragon should be literal. The ten horns on the head of the dragon, the crowns, the lamb, etc. etc etc. should all be literal because the words that John used refer to things that are physical by definition.  We would all agree, however, that these are figurative.  It does not stand to reason that the figurative dragon, with the seven figurative heads, ten figurative horns and a figurative crown upon each figurative horn — a figurative dragon who hates the figurative woman and who gives power to the figurative Beast that opposes the figurative lamb (a figurative lamb who figuratively marks those who follow the figurative lamb with a figurative seal) — puts a literal, physical mark upon those who worship the figurative Beast. The song “One Of These Things (Is Not Like The Other)” comes to mind, doesn’t it? It makes much more sense that the word “mark (charagma)” is used figuratively by John, just as “lamb (arnion)” and “crowns (diadema)” and “horns (keras)” and many others all refer to something physical and tangible that we can identify with. All are symbolic or spiritual, not literal and physical.

The Significance of the Head and Hand, and Being ‘Marked’ in Scripture

As for the significance of being ‘marked’ in the head or hand, let’s review a few portions of Scripture that refer to the head and hand and what these terms mean in those specific contexts.

Exodus 13:9 says, “And it shall serve AS A SIGN to you on your hand, and AS A REMINDER to you on your forehead, that the law of the LORD may be in your mouth; for with a powerful hand the LORD brought you out of Egypt.”

The Lord said that His words are to be as a sign on our hand, and as frontals on our foreheads. The word “as” is “used to express similarity or equality in a specified characteristic, condition, etc., as between one person or thing and another.” It means “like” or “similar to.”

Sign: H226 Strong’s Bible Dictionary “ôth” – Probably from H225 (in the sense of appearing); a signal, as a flag, beacon, monument, omen, prodigy, evidence, etc.: – mark, miracle, (en-) sign, token.

Deuteronomy 6:5-8, “You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up. You shall bind them AS A SIGN ON YOUR HAND and they shall be AS FRONTALS ON YOUR FOREHEAD.”

Deuteronomy 11:18, “Therefore you shall lay up these words of mine in your heart and in your soul, and bind them AS A SIGN ON YOUR HAND, and they shall be AS FRONTLETS BETWEEN YOUR EYES.”

James 4:8, “Come near to God and he will come near to you. WASH YOUR HANDS, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you DOUBLE-MINDED.”

Psalms 119:48, “My HANDS ALSO I WILL LIFT UP to Your commandments, Which I love, And I will MEDIATE ON YOUR STATUTES.”

Instead of interpreting Scripture to conform to our understanding, we must allow our understanding to conform to Scripture. When Scripture is permitted to interpret itself we’ll then begin to see why the Mark of the Beast need not be literal at all, but is instead simply an identifying mark upon the head or forehead to represent the mind, what you believe, your faith, how you think, and in the right hand to represent actions, works, what you do. There is nothing in the text necessitating a physical and visible mark upon the forehead or right hand as in a microchip or tattoo or anything else that a people or government can physically place therein or upon. It just doesn’t exist.

The Mark of the Beast – A Closer Look

Aside from those who worship the Beast, the only other figure in the book of Revelation directly related to the Beast and described as having a mark or name upon their forehead is one who many Bible scholars and prophecy teachers refer to as the “Whore of Babylon.”  This “woman” is described as being carried by the Beast (17:7), and all agree she is figurative and identified by the name upon her forehead. This alone should beg the question: If the name marked upon the forehead of this “woman” is figurative to designate identity, would this not then infer that the Mark of the Beast is itself also a figurative mark to designate identity, especially considering the fact that the mark of God upon the foreheads of the elect is itself also figurative to designate identity (Rev 7:3, Rev 9:4, Rev 14:1, Rev 22:3-4)?  Common sense would dictate that, yes, it would.

In Scripture, the seal of God upon the forehead of the elect refers to those who keep the commandments of God and who do not worship the Beast.  Conversely, those who have the Mark of the Beast would therefore be identified with those who worship the Beast and do not worship God. This would be the direct antithesis to the mark of Christ and symbolic of worship, of allegiance, of identity to permit all readers of Revelation to know to whom the individual or group belongs to and to whom their allegiance lies.  And for those with the Mark of the Beast, it is not with YHWH the God of Israel. Just as those who worship Christ receive the mark of Christ and are “sealed for the day of redemption” (Eph. 4:30), those who worship the Beast receive the Mark of the Beast and will “drink of the wine of the wrath of God” (Rev. 14:9-10) and suffer the same fate as the “Whore of Babylon”: destruction.

The Beast Carries the “Whore of Babylon” – Who Is She?

In chapter 5 of the book of Zechariah we read about a vision that Zechariah was given of a flying scroll and a “wicked woman”.  An angel tells Zechariah that “This is the curse that is going out over the whole land” at the appointed time (5:3,11). The Prophet Zechariah then writes that “the angel who was speaking to me came forward and said to me, ‘Look up and see what this is that is appearing.’ I asked, ‘What is it?’ He replied, ‘It is a measuring basket.’ And he added, ‘This is the iniquity of the people throughout the land.’ Then the cover of lead was raised, and there in the basket sat a woman” (Zech 5:5-7).  Zechariah continues, “He said, ‘This is wickedness,’ and he pushed her back into the basket and pushed the lead cover down over its mouth. Then I looked up–and there before me were two women, with the wind in their wings! They had wings like those of a stork, and they lifted up the basket between heaven and earth. ‘Where are they taking the basket?’ I asked the angel who was speaking to me. He replied, ‘To the country of Babylonia to build a house for it. When it is ready, the basket will be set there in its place.’” (Zech 5:8-11).

babylon-empire-map2Of particular interest here is the fact that this “curse” is described as a “woman” who would be set up in “Babylon” (Shin’ar). The Babylonian Empire encompassed areas of Saudi Arabia (the birthplace and spiritual homestead of Islam) to the south, to parts of Asia Minor (Turkey) in the north, and from Egypt in the west to Persia (Iran) in the east. This area is today the regional epicenter of Islam. Additionally, one intriguing aspect to the “curse” that goes out over the whole land is that the word for “curse”, and even how it is pronounced, is the Hebrew word “alah”. The Prophet Isaiah, in describing the condition of the earth at the time leading up to the Second Coming of Messiah, says that “the curse [alah] has devoured the earth, And those who dwell in it are desolate” (Isa 24:6).  To dwell in the earth does not in and of itself make one “desolate”. But the same cannot be said for those who dwell in the “curse.”

There should be little doubt that the “woman” of Zechariah 5 that would have a house built for it in Babylon directly represents the “Whore of Babylon” referred to earlier. Over 600 years after Zechariah’s vision of the end times, John in Revelation 17 is given a vision of the future and of “the great harlot who sits on many waters … And on her forehead a name [was] written: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH” (17:1,5).  Given the fact that the “Whore of Babylon” directly represents the curse (alah), is being carried by the Beast, and is herself marked with a name upon her forehead, does it not stand to reason that the Mark of the Beast would therefore be associated with, or directly related to, the “woman” and “curse” (alah) prophesied by Zechariah and John?

Narrowing It Down and Zooming In

Moreover, let’s also consider the following. The Church of God — the assembly of His people — is called the “Ekklesia” in Scripture and in terms of location is identified with Jerusalem, Israel. This is the epicenter of the Judeo-Christian faith. If the “Bride” of the Lamb is identified as a city called “Jerusalem” (Rev. 21:9-10, “Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife… and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God”) then does it not stand to reason that the “Whore of Babylon” would also be associated with a city of its own? From the preponderance of the evidence that we are given throughout Scripture, the “whore” identified by John in Revelation is associated with the epicenter of Islam itself. And what would that be? The city of Mecca. Whereas the Judeo-Christian faith came out of Jerusalem, Islam came out of Mecca, the birthplace of “Allah’s religion” and the spiritual city of the “Ummah”.  She is the “whore of Babylon”. “Babylon” is the Islamic kingdom. The Islamic kingdom is the Beast. (And for what it’s worth, Mecca is known as a “city of seven hills” in the Muslim world).

Babylon: Spiritual Confusion and the Quagmire of Islam

The name Babylon written upon the forehead of this “woman” comes from the Hebrew word Babel, which means “confusion (by mixing)”. Since the region of ancient Babylon is today the epicenter of Islam and its god “Allah”, it is befitting to note a brief history of the founder and ‘prophet’ of Islam, Mohammed, and his self-proclaimed holy book, the Qur’an.

In an effort to entice Jewish and Christian converts to Islam, Islam’s ‘prophet’ incorporated a twisted mix of Jewish and Christian teachings with the existing Babylonian religion of Arabia early in his campaign to gain adherents to his “new” monotheistic Arab religion (formerly polytheistic), even going so far as to claim that “Allah” was the same god that Jews and Christians worshiped [1].  But Jews and Christians would not be deceived and, already familiar with the polytheistic religion of the Romans and their Greek gods, understood full well that just as abolishing all other Greek gods except Zeus would not suddenly make Zeus the God of Israel, neither would abolishing all Babylonian gods except for the moon god “Allah” suddenly make Mohammed’s god the God of Jews and Christians. This complete rejection of Mohammed and his teachings infuriated the ‘prophet’ of “Allah”, resulting in subsequent “revelations” for the Qur’an for the next 20 or so years that grew increasingly hateful and violent against Jews, Christians and all non-Muslims in general. This twisted mixing of Judeo-Christian teachings, Babylonian paganism and vengeful anti-Semitic and anti-Christian hatred is what permeates every crevice of Islam, even today.


Islam – Belief, Behavior, Bureaucracy, and Business

According to Islam, anyone who believes that Jesus was God in the flesh who died on the cross for the sins of mankind, a foundational tenet upon which Christianity is built, is accused of committing the worst of all possible sins called “shirk”. In Islam, this is an unpardonable sin that “Allah” will never forgive. In Christianity it is the key to everlasting life. But although Islam includes religious teachings as a vital, integral part of its core — Muslims must pray five times a day, and the only way for any Muslim to guarantee Paradise after death is to wage Jihad and be killed for the cause of “Allah” — it is not just simply a religious ideology that seeks to assert itself in place of Christ and all other religions. It is also a works-based system that completely encompasses legal, political, economic and even military components as well that seek to replace all other non-Islamic religions, values, laws, governments and economies until only Islam reigns supreme throughout the world [3]. Not only does Islam force its adherents to submit to “Allah” and his ‘prophet’ and demand that you reject any belief that Jesus is the Son of God and all other non-Islamic teachings, it also teaches that “Allah” weighs the good deeds and bad deeds of Muslims on a scale to determine who makes it into Paradise, and who does not.

In contrast, notice how we as Christians only receive a mark on our foreheads when we are sealed by God. Why not in our right hand as well? Unlike Islam, which is based upon works, Christians are saved by grace through faith, by being born again, by believing in the true Jesus of Biblical Scripture who died upon the cross, by being transformed by the renewal of our mind. We are not saved by works, lest any one should boast (Eph 2:9).

No One Can Buy or Sell Unless They Have the ‘Mark’

The biggest question that many will have regarding a symbolic mark is, “If the Mark of the Beast is only symbolic, how can those who do not have a literal mark not buy or sell?” This is often used as well by some as an argument against a figurative mark, arguing that any such mark must be visible and/or physical if it is required in order to buy or sell.  However, the answer to this question is much simpler than many may think.

When it comes to the conditions that exist in many Islamic nations for Christians, Dr. Labib Mikhail, a former professor of homiletics from the Faith Mission Bible College in Cairo, Egypt, states that one reason why people are forced to embrace Islam is because of the poverty they will assuredly find themselves in if they do not. “If you don’t embrace Islam you may not find a job; you may not find an apartment, and you’ll be in financial trouble” [4].  Non-Muslims, particularly Christians and Jews, living in Muslim-dominated countries are finding themselves subjected to an ever increasing wave of discrimination, oppression and persecution at the hands of the Ummah (Islamic Community).  Even today a Christian in a Muslim country is often treated as a second-class citizen or worse, unable to serve in the military or police, many cannot work or own a business, or even find a place to live. They cannot own a weapon to defend themselves, nor can they testify against a Muslim in court, etc. etc. etc. [5].  And this type of treatment is getting worse, not better. (Update: Read here to find out just how much worse this has become in 2011 alone).

According to NIFCON (Network for Inter Faith Concerns) in Iraq, for example, minorities have faced a tremendous crisis due to their religious identity and are increasingly becoming targets of unprecedented terror. Canon Andrew White, vicar of St. George’s Anglican Church in Bagdad and head of the Foundation for Reconciliation and Reconstruction in the Middle East, testified as a witness in 2007 at a hearing that Christians, in particular, “are being disproportionately targeted” and many Christians are being threatened either to convert to Islam or face execution [6].  In fact, in April 2011, “an Iraqi Muslim scholar issued a fatwa that, among other barbarities, asserts that ‘it is permissible to spill the blood of Iraqi Christians.’ … Among other atrocities, beheading and crucifying Christians are not irregular occurrences; messages saying ‘you Christian dogs, leave or die,’ are typical. Islamists see the church as an ‘obscene nest of pagans’ and threaten to ‘exterminate Iraqi Christians.'” [7].

Think about this very carefully. According to the Greek text of Revelation 13:17-18 it isn’t just someone who hasn’t received the “Mark of the Beast” on the right hand or forehead that cannot buy or sell. In order to buy or sell they must have the Mark of the Beast *or* the name of the Beast *or* the number of its name. In other words, those able to buy or sell are counted among the number of they who submit to the authority of the Beast empire or kingdom, not because they have been physically marked in the right hand or forehead for all to see, but because they are considered one of them ideologically or culturally or religiously in speech and practise. Consider these recent new stories, for instance:

And these are simply some of the incidents that we know about.

On one hand, while many are coming face to face with the threat of death for not converting to Islam, other Christians elsewhere are threatened to convert in other ways that, for some, make life extremely difficult.  In many Islamic nations, for instance, everyone must be given an ID card and this ID card specifies what religion you are, such as “M” for Muslim or “C” for Christian or “J” for Jew.  For example, “Christian converts and members of minority religions suffer daily discrimination in Egypt, which restricts their access to work, education, travel and healthcare… Every Egyptian over 16 years old must have an ID card which mentions religious belief”. In fact, “an ID card is required for the most basic needs in Egypt — to open a bank account, get a driver’s licence, obtain a pension cheque, enrol at school, get a job, and even for childhood immunisations…” Some Muslims will convert to another faith other than Christianity, but “Muslims who convert to Christianity account for many more and their treatment is often harsher as they are considered to be apostates, which some Muslims see as punishable by death” [8].  And now, since the fall of Hosni Mubarak and the rise of the ‘Egyptian Revolution,’ the situation has worsened dramatically for Jews and Christians.  This is where Islamic supremacy veiled in a cloak of ‘democracy’ will take you in a country where Islam is the overwhelming, dominant religion.  It’s like Sunni and Shia.  It’s like iron and clay.  Democracy and Islamism will never fully mix.

These sort of conditions exist for Jews and Christians all throughout North Africa, the Middle East and elsewhere where Islam dominates or seeks domination, from the Ivory Coast to Nigeria, Sudan, Ethiopia, TunisiaGaza, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Pakistan, Iran, Malaysia, Indonesia, The Maldives, Bangladesh and others.

When we begin to understand the dire social and economic conditions that Christians are increasingly facing in Islamic nations we then begin to understand that they who will not be able to buy or sell, or are targeted for execution, are those Christians that refuse to submit to Islam both in mind (forehead) and in deed (right hand) yet are forced to remain in Islamic nations during the rise of the Beast. How can a non-Muslim “infidel” — who is often threatened with death — buy or sell if they are not permitted to work and earn money, if they are not granted permits to open a business, if the superior Muslim will refuse to sell to the inferior “dhimmi”?  As bad as this situation is now, it is only going to get worse.

Chi-Xi-Stigma — In The Name of Allah?

Revelation 13:18, “Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six.”

Someone asked me once if I believed Walid Shoebat’s theory regarding Revelation 13:18 and “666”. Shoebat says that when he first saw the Greek symbols that are often translated as “666” he immediately recognized that the Greek text closely resembled the Arabic text for “Bismillah”, which translates to “In The Name Of Allah.” His theory is interesting and is something to consider.  At the very least, it is prudent to have an open mind to this position, especially given the likelihood that the Mark of the Beast is, in some way, directly related to Islam.   Mr. Shoebat and Chuck Missler speak about this possible aspect of chi-xi-stigma here in the following two videos, respectively:

Sunan Ibn Majah 2763, “The Messenger of Allah [Mohammed] said: ‘Whoever meets Allah with no mark on him (as a result of fighting) in His cause, he will meet Him with deficiency.”

Although I believe that the Mark of the Beast is primarily a spiritual designator, much like the mark of Christ that is upon the foreheads of the elect, that is not to say, however, that there cannot or will not at times also be a physical indicator that could identify the spiritual designation.  In addition to the “battle marks” received while waging Jihad or the “zebibah” (prayer mark) on the foreheads of many devout Muslims, Jihadists typically wear the “Bismallah” on the forehead and on the right arm, which itself is significant because the Greek word translated as “right hand” is dexios which not only means the right hand, but also the right side (the right hand side). In fact, even the Hebrew word “yad” means both hand and arm [7].

Exegetically and hermeneutically, the “number” (arithmos) of the beast does not necessitate the use of mathematics or gammatria to “reckon” (understand) what it is, something that many prophecy teachers often fall into. The word “arithmos” is used a total of 18 times in the NT, and aside from Rev 5:11 when John refers to the number of living beings he witnesses around the throne of God, every other time “arithmos” is used it is always referring to a group of people. This is significant because it therefore means that the Greek text is better understood as “the multitude of the beast: for it is the multitude of a man.” But what multitude of people would that be and what man are they all following? There is nothing in the text telling us that the man referred to here must be someone alive at that specific time or an end-of-days Antichrist. So what and who is John the Revelator referring to? Significantly, as noted above, “chi-xi-stigma” (often translated as “666”) closely resembles the Arabic Bismallah, which translates to “In The Name Of Allah”. In order to convert to “Allah’s” religion, however, one must recite the Islamic statement of faith, called the Shahada, by declaring that “There is no god but Allah, and MOHAMMED is his messenger.” Without Christ, there can be no Christianity. Likewise, without Mohammed, there can be no Islam.

Think about it.

One of the reasons why Muslims hate Christianity is because Christianity associates Jesus with God, making Jesus a co-equal partner with the Almighty. According to Islam, this is called “shirk” and is an unpardonable sin that “Allah” will never forgive. The truth of the matter, however, is that Islam itself also associates the “prophet” Mohammed — whom Muslims claim to be the most “perfect man” to ever walk the face of the earth — with “Allah” himself. On one hand, Islam teaches that “Allah” has no partners, but then contradicts itself by teaching that someone cannot become a Muslim unless they acknowledge that “There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his messenger” per the Shahada. Unless one acknowledges Mohammed they cannot become a Muslim. In Islam, a Muslim’s “salvation” is therefore entirely determined by their obedience and devotion to Mohammed, effectively elevating the “prophet” of Islam to the same co-equal status of Islam’s own deity. To acknowledge “Allah” is not enough. You MUST acknowledge the “perfect man” Mohammed as well, and failure to do so means that they cannot be counted as part of the Ummah of Islam (Islamic community or nation).

The multitude of the Beast, which is the multitude of a man, are those who receive the “Mark of the Beast” upon their “foreheads” and are destined for destruction. This is the direct antithesis to the “great multitude” of Rev 7 and 14, which is the multitude of the Lamb that receives the seal of God upon their “foreheads” (Rev 7:3, 14:1) and are destined for redemption (cf Eph 4:30). One multitude is lost and separated from Christ forever (Rev 14:11), the other is saved and received unto Christ (Rev 7:15-17, 19:6-9, 22:2-5) to be with Him always. In light of what we have just learned, it therefore stands to reason that “the multitude of a man” is not referring to an eschatonic Antichrist, but rather to Mohammed — the founder and “prophet” of Islam — and those who follow him whose teachings even today continues to force all those under Islamic rule to worship “Allah” who should otherwise be killed if they refuse.

Revelation 13:15, “The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.”

Knowing that the mark of Christ includes a name upon the seal, it therefore makes sense that the Mark of the Beast could also have a name upon its seal as well. If it is plausible that what John saw was Arabic for “In The Name of Allah” for those who worship the Beast — the antithesis of those who worship God and are sealed with the name of Christ written on their foreheads — then in stark contrast those who worship the Beast and follow the religion of Mohammed could have the name of “Allah” upon theirs, and there would be no doubt about who belongs to who. Interestingly enough, the Qur’an itself at times emphasizes the significance of a Muslim’s forehead being marked during the worship of “Allah” — a mark that is required in order to be saved from hellfire per the Hadith — and how their works will be judged by what is in their right hand on the Day of Judgment:

Qur’an Sura 48:29, “Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers … The mark of them is on their foreheads from the traces of prostration …”

Qur’an Sura 18:49, “And the Book (one’s Record) will be placed (in the right hand for a believer in the Oneness of Allah, and in the left hand for a disbeliever in the Oneness of Allah) …”

Qur’an Sura 69:19, “Then, as for him who is given his record in his right hand, he will say: Take, read my book!”

Qur’an Sura 57:12, “On that day [of judgement] you will see the faithful men and the faithful women [Muslims] — their light running before them and on their right hand …”

Needless to say, anyone standing before God with a “mark” on their foreheads other than the seal of Christ will face eternal damnation when the books recording what they had done are opened:

Revelation 20:12, 15, “And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books … Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.”

Revelation 14:11, “And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

To Whom Do You Belong?

Revelation 22:3-4, “And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name [shall be] in their foreheads.” (See also Rev 14:1).

The Ekklesia is “Jerusalem” — the Bride of Christ — and is identified with the kingdom of God. The Ummah is “Mecca” — the “Whore of Babylon” — and is identified with the kingdom of the Beast. It is no secret that al-Qaeda and all like-minded Sunni and Shia terror organizations despise the “apostate” kingdom of Saud, not to mention Iran — a state-sponsor of terror — that is well on its way to obtaining nuclear weapons. These are they who “hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire” (Rev 17:16). The “Whore of Babylon” has spread radical Islamic ideology throughout the earth and the Beast that she has ridden throughout the centuries will soon turn on her to devour the hand that fed it.

New insights into Scripture and a review of developments being witnessed on a near daily basis in the Muslim world has lead a growing number of Christians to now recognize that Islam is the religious system of the Last Day’s Antichrist [be it a man or a system] and ideology of the Beast. It is the Adversary’s aim to corrupt and destroy anything that God has created, and this “curse” [alah] is his weapon of mass destruction.  There should be no doubt today that we are in the last of the Last Days and as we can see every day in the media, the Judeo-Christian West is being bombarded by the steadily encroaching tentacles of Sharia influence as Islamists take advantage of the West’s accommodating naivete and political correctness by using and abusing the very same democratic freedoms they seek to destroy.  While seeking the destruction of the West from within, it is getting increasingly dire for Jews and Christians in the Islamic world. The Beast of this Islamic Empire is coalescing. It is gaining in strength militarily. The Islamist ideology espoused by Al Qaeda and its ilk has metastasized since 9/11 throughout the Muslim world and is seeking to force as many non-Muslims as possible into Islamic submission.  Within this kingdom, laws are being enforced or implemented in accordance to Sharia Law to produce your ID card and/or prove you are Muslim in order to buy or sell. If anyone wants to have any semblance of a life they will be forced to convert to Islam if they have not already done so. It may even get to the point where one will be unable to obtain an ID card if they are not Muslim. Want a job? Prove you’re a Muslim. Want a bank account? Prove you’re a Muslim. Want a credit card? A business? A place to live? Prove that you are a Muslim. As radicalization continues to take hold it will also get to the point where either you convert, or you are killed.  Indeed, many areas are already at this point today.

Revised 2/10/2015
  1. Kurt Jorgensen
    03/22/2011 at 12:43 AM

    I think I might remove the word “radical” from “Radical Islam…”!! Very well written and argued, ICA.

    I just watched an older Glenn Beck interview with Netanyahu regarding Iran, Islam and the Mahdi. Netanyahu is very sharp and seems to understand the issue thoroughly. Thankfully Israel found a way to derail the Iranian quest for the N bomb, at least for now (Stuxnet). The clip is about 8 or 9 minutes long:

    Liked by 1 person

  2. ICA
    03/22/2011 at 10:43 AM

    Thanks for the link, Kurt. Looks like it was a couple of years ago while Beck was still at CNN. Judging from the interview, Netanyahu definitely has put a few pieces of the puzzle together.


  3. mikitta
    03/22/2011 at 12:56 PM

    Interesting idea, however – considering that the Mark of the Beast will have a component that identifies a person for buying or selling and the Word says specifically that the identifying component is in the hand or forehead – you can’t spiritualize this away.

    Taking in your other examples (the lamb, the woman, etc) they have a physical component. The Lamb is Christ. The Woman is Israel. The Dragon is a conglomerated government. Physical manifestations of the spiritual reality. I would venture to say even the seal of God on the elect has a physical manifestation, but the exact description is not included in the prophetic text.

    Conjecture that micro-chipping is going to be a key component of TMotB is not out of the realm of possibility. In fact, it is quite likely it will be part of it. But what really damns souls during the Tribulation is that they worship the beast. Worship of the Beast upon receiving the Mark is the biggest qualifier.

    God Bless,


    • Tammy L McGaa
      01/02/2017 at 4:42 AM

      The mark is spiritual. To put it simply, the mark on the hand represents action, forehead represents thoughts. Both show whether or not we are true of false. How? By whether or not we are obedient to GOD or to man.if we are true, we will obey GOD even if it means persecution, torture and/or death. If we are false, no matter what we say or claim, we will end up compromising in order to avoid persecution, torture and death. GOD knows our hearts and minds…HE cannot be deceived.


  4. ICA
    03/22/2011 at 1:24 PM

    Hi Mik, thank you for your thoughts. The identifier could be something akin to the ID card that is given to the population in many Middle Eastern countries and it is this ID card that identifies whether or not one is Muslim. If they are not it is much more difficult — and may some day be all but impossible — to obtain work and receive income if they are not Muslim in order to buy or sell (for example, see here and here).

    We should also keep in mind that according to Rev 13:17 it is not simply having the Mark of the Beast that allows someone to buy or sell. Additionally, “no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark OR the name of the beast, OR the number of his name.” So a physical identifier would only be one aspect to those who are prohibited from buying or selling. If they are in a region or nation where the issuance of an ID card has not been implement, they must also somehow identify with “the name of the beast” or “the number of his name.” The word for “number” in Greek is “arithmos” which also means “multitude”, which I would argue to be the “Ummah” (world-wide Muslim community).

    It is true that there is often a physical component to figurative terms such as “Beast”, “lamb”, “dragon”, etc. However, I would contend that there is very likely no physical component that I could ascertain that would be identifiable with the seal of God, to which the MOTB is its direct antithesis. As such it is my own personal opinion that the mark of the Beast is primarily spiritual.

    Regardless, at the end of the day it’s important for us to keep our eyes open to all possibilities, be they physical or spiritual.


    • beCarefulWhatYouFallFor
      04/16/2016 at 11:12 AM

      You better be careful if this is your own petsonal opinion so you don’t end up as one of those that are deceived! & yes it does say it will be the only way to buy, sell, or trade. And its not the card you were referring to because while that can be in your hand it can’t be in your head. Google is developing a chip for your brain that links you up to the internet which will someday probably not that far off be the only way to buy sell or trade. If that doesn’t strike you as erily close to the description the Bible gives then you very well may be deceived. I will definitely keep you in my prayers. I understand your point but I am afraid for you. Btw the ORS that you point out are not different things. They are just different ways of saying the same thing OR synonyms. See what I’m saying.


      • ICA
        04/18/2016 at 12:42 PM

        beCareful, “Google is developing a chip for your brain that links you up to the internet which will someday probably not that far off be the only way to buy sell or trade.”

        Hi BC, thank you for your comments. Let’s think about this reasonably. After all, God loves reason. Will Google also require that in order to buy or sell one must also bow down and worship somebody? Is that a reasonable notion in a largely anti-religious era? What if Google or some other corporate or governmental entity says that you can put a chip in your left hand for all the lefties instead of the right hand when the Bible only says “right hand”? I would contend that we need to stop thinking about pop-theology and start thinking about the intent of Divinely-inspired Scripture. Many Christians are already unable to buy or sell in areas under the influence or control of an Islamic Beast, not because they have something imprinted on their foreheads or in their right hands, but because they don’t think or act like or worship or self-identify with the Islamic Beast. Remember, Revelation describes a time when the only ones who would be permitted to buy or sell within this particular Antichrist kingdom would be those who had the “mark” OR the “name” of the beast OR were those who were counted among its “number” (people) (Revelation 13:17).


        • Jefe
          07/07/2016 at 3:54 PM

          I think your lack of understanding of the intents of the corporations such as google is what is leading you astray. These companies are fronts, for a much larger conglomeration of resources and technology. Do you think it is coincidence that ApplePay was released, followed by AndroidPay(Google’s version) and many others? The conditioning is already in full effect to get people used to the idea of using these technologies to pay instead of cash or card. Next will likely be use of the wearable technology such as AppleWatch and Android Watches to pay with just the wave of a hand.
          In the face of a national or international crisis, in a world where Christianity is being silenced, you don’t think to remain a part of “society” you may one day be faced with a decision to renounce your faith, pledge faith to another and take the mark, or be cast out/killed for maintaining your faith, will be a choice you will have to make?

          You are looking at the entire subject as if this world has nothing against one’s faith in Christianity. Like these companies do not have an agenda, or are not working for the ruler of this world. Thinking of it with this pretense will obviously change your perspective on the reality of a physical mark being in our future.


          • yourjesustreasure
            07/07/2016 at 4:01 PM

            Twitter is harder and harder to use for me. It started with twitter not responding, spinning endlessly. Then unable to view follows, likes and retweets, now direct messages will not open. Tweets that come in on phone as a follower notification may or may not be able to be retweeted. The censoring has arrived.


    • MKS
      07/09/2016 at 8:23 PM

      I would do a little research on the new Google blood sucking watch device that was patented secretly in 2014, and just now revealed and ready for mass production. Look around you at credit cards, chips, and now Apple Pay and Android Pay. Gods mark will be spiritual, our salvation and his rapture. Satan tries to copy God’s plans bug in a physical way because he was cast down to earth. The mark of the beast will be of the flesh. It has to be physical.


  5. Kurt Jorgensen
    03/22/2011 at 3:12 PM

    I really think ICA is right on this one, at least as far as the representational/symbolic nature of the mark goes. No one is lost unless they die in an unbelieving/unregenerated state–this is non-debatable when considering the whole counsel of scripture. So taking a physical mark in agreement with worship of the beast, say a tattoo or an implant, would not obviate a person’s free will to reject the mark and believe in Christ. Additionally, those who say the mark is physical have not adequately addressed the issue that someone could then be given that mark against their will and be damned.

    On the other hand, if the mark/name of the beast/number of his name means allegiance to the beast, just as the seal of God means allegiance to Christ, then both issues are satisfactorily addressed. Also, ICA’s explanation is much more internally consistent with the symbolic nature of Revelation, and the clearly intentional contrast that is being made between the Seal of God and the Mark of the Beast.


    • beCarefulWhatYouFallFor
      04/16/2016 at 11:18 AM

      Well it doesn’t say you would be damned if someone forces you to take it. It says if you take it of your own will. Also you won’t be physically forced to take it. You will be told take it or starve. Take it or lose everything. Take it or die. Take it or watch your family die. Because Satan knows taking it by your choice I what will damn you. Therefore he doesn’t want to physically force you because that wouldn’t help his cause. He wants you to”feel” like there’s no choice so you will make the one he wants you to.


    • Nicole Caraccilo
      08/19/2016 at 2:52 PM

      Exactly this is the absolute best reply ever. Thank you! Lately God has been showing me how my spiritual eyes have been closed, I thought I understood I thought I had an understanding LOL but I only had a fleshly understanding, of worldly understanding, I realize I really didn’t understand as a spiritual at all! I didn’t even understand forgiveness I am elated to say, because it was much better than what I thought! I had the knowledge of forgiveness of sins but I don’t think I really died to myself because every day I was still so upset that I failed to be good enough. But praise God because I realize that the blood of Jesus forgives every single sin, there’s no question about it I don’t have to feel bad for not being right just because I’m not in my carnal state, and never will be in town our Lord comes but praise God the blood covers everything, always, in all matters!! And an amazing thing happened, once I realized that and stopped trying- or rather, stopped listening to lies From Hell from the devil telling me that I have to be a good person even in addition to the blood. So now I’m dead and anytime I think that I’m not, I just have to rebuke the devil, and anytime the devil uses my feelings to lie to me, attempting to tell me that I might not ‘really’ be saved because fell short of God’s Glory today, I rebuke the devil again, and every time I feel like God doesn’t answer my prayers still rebuke the accuset it’s just all lies of the devil. Because when he tries to accuse us to God God just points to the blood of Jesus on the cross and it shuts him down immediately and if we fail to do the same thing when he accuses us to ourselves that’s where we fall into despair because we’re believing his lies were believing sin has more power than the blood and we cannot do that as Christians. It doesn’t matter how we may “feel” about it. The truth is the truth whether or not we feel like it’s the truth or not. That devil is very crafty, he can use all means to lie to us.. remember? He’s the father of Lies he’s not above using our feelings, as a means to get us to believe his lies! We know he can and will use any and ALL of our senses to tempt us into believing his lies. Like, you know, feelings, thoughts, sensations, even things like a sickness that seems so real-all lies from the Devil! Don’t fall into that trap of trusting your feelings like I did. The blood covered/covers ALL sins, past present and future sins ALL of them are included. So the enemy has no basis to accuse us to the father anymore! Never, again can he go to God and accuses because all God will do is point to the blood and he’s satisfied he doesn’t have to take Vengeance on our sins because we’ve been Justified, nothing more is needed, and if it’s good enough for God it MUST be good enough for us, even if we don’t understand it completely, that doesn’t make it any less The Truth.. the truth will remain the truth forever because it’s the truth. So there is no more need to beg God for forgiveness, because it’s already been done! Praise God, give him glory, in the highest praise our Jesus and give him thanks, it’s all been completed! Now we just wait for his return. Do you see that the mark must be spiritual because a mark on her head signifies our mind the conversion of mind and I believe the right hand is our submission to his will. Thank you so much for clarifying this part of Revelation for me as it has troubled me for so long. But like I said I hadn’t had spiritual sight so I look forward to realizing even more spiritual truths as the Lord sees fit to reveal it to me in his timing. That’s what Jesus used to sigh about; people always failed to see the spiritual meanings, such as when Jesus tells his disciples that he’s going so to take up their swords now when before they hadn’t needed to–and so they grab their swords and ‘we have but 3 swords’ and Jesus replied, “that’s enough.” Because he was speaking about there’s SPIRITUAL sword! Jesus spoke EVERYTHING in a spiritual way- he ‘did not belong to this world’ therefore, didn’t speak as people in this world spoke. Which is why he’s so stressed the spiritual. The only way to understand His Word, the key to understanding Him, and the Kingdom of Heaven is by spiritual means. Pray and ask God to open your spiritual eyes, I pray that He opens the spiritual eyes of all who wish to understand to the spiritual truths in the word. The word of God becomes alive and so much more when your spiritual eyes are opened I think God that I came about this page because even reading it and no writing to others has opened even more spiritual truths to me. I am fully convinced that the only way to understand the Word is by a spiritual awakening, like Apostle Paul had, that I literally just had a couple of days ago and I’ve been a Christian for the past eight or nine years.. Those who ask will knock and the door will be opened.” Remember that verse as you pray daily for your spiritual eyes to be opened amen


  6. A Bragg
    04/06/2011 at 5:00 PM

    Very interesting and worthy of consideration!


  7. 04/10/2011 at 9:37 PM

    ISLAM AND THE RIGHT HAND – The right hand in Islam is considered the clean hand – it is the only hand that you are allowed to eat with pick up the Koran with – shake hands with etc – the left hand is considered the dirty hand and it is used for bathroom purposes – certain types of work etc. That is why it is such a drastic punishment if a Muslim gets caught stealing and they chop off the right hand they are than left with the left hand the dirty hand to eat with which is very shameful.

    Another note on the 666 which I find interesting is as follows

    1) Both Rev and Daniel refer the A/C as the Beast – Just like the A/C is seen as a Beast Nebuchadnezzar also was the only person in the bible to become a Beast

    2) The Beast the A/C in Rev also created and had an image that people will be forced to worship or die – Nebuchadnezzar also built an image and if you did not fall down to worship you were also killed by being thrown into the furnace

    3) Rev 13:18 the Beast had a number and his number was 666 – Nebuchadnezzars image was 60 cubilts high – 6 cubits in width and people had to fall down at the sound of 6 instruments. Somewhere in this may be a clue as to the number of his name ??

    4) The image was 60 cubits x 6 cubits = 360 cubits the furnace was heated up 7 times as hot as normal = 360 cubits and 7x hotter = 2520 But 2520 what ??


  8. john
    06/08/2011 at 2:53 PM

    you had me until you brought up islam. Your idea of islam is a very minority sect of muslims that don’t know how to read their koran. The equivalent would be a muslim scholar lumping all fundamentalist evangelical Christians and assuming we are the cause of the world’s injustice i.e., pollution, dwindling of natural resources, globalism and the impoverishing of developing nations, homosexual bashing…etc.

    Also you never mention that 666 would be something that referred specifically to someone in those times. No one has been able to exactly decipher the name – some say Nero, some say others…but we do know that this numbering system was a popular game of gematria played by children in those days…how do you go from this to allah?


    • ICA
      06/08/2011 at 4:31 PM

      What percentage do you believe adhere to Islamism in the Muslim world? 25%? 15%? 10%? In America, I believe that the majority of Muslims are peaceful or want to live in peace. But what about those who are not?

      New Study Shows That 80% of Mosques in America Teach Jihad Violence and Islamic Supremacism – “In 1998, Sheikh Muhammad Hisham Kabbani, a Sufi leader, visited 114 mosques in the United States. Then he gave testimony before a State Department Open Forum in January 1999, and asserted that 80% of American mosques taught the ‘extremist ideology.’

      Then there was the Center for Religious Freedom’s 2005 study, and the Mapping Sharia Project’s 2008 study. Each independently showed that upwards of 80% of mosques in America were preaching hatred of Jews and Christians and the necessity ultimately to impose Islamic rule.

      And now comes yet more confirmation that mosques in the U.S. are teaching these things, and again the percentage is remarkably similar: around 80% of mosques are found to be teaching jihad warfare and Islamic supremacism.

      This study is extensive and detailed. Look over all the data. Above all, call upon your elected officials and the media to take notice — at very least, to ask pointed questions from local mosque leaders about the books they’re using and what they’re teaching in general. Call on them to require honest, verifiable answers.”

      The fact that the majority of Muslims in America are peaceful does not negate the fact that the majority of mosques in America teach their people that they are superior as Muslims and that you and I are inferior as “dhimmi” non-Muslims who will one day be ruled under Dar al Islam, or die if we refuse. Moreover, as I have explained here, I’ve believed for some time now that numerous terrorist cells are in place all throughout the United States and, with the right triggering event, “lone wolf” terrorist attacks will not be isolated events. It will be wide-scale.

      As we all know, there are millions upon millions of Muslims living in Western nations today. If an event were to occur in the world that would be eschatologically pivotal for Muslims this would be sure to awaken any radical elements within the Muslim population, regardless of where they live, and even radicalize some of those who were previously considered “moderate”. The arrival of al Mahdi, for example, could become the “triggering event” that has the potential to precipitate a sudden surge in Islamic terrorism all over the globe. If we are complacent into believing that any such scenario could never happen or is highly unlikely, we don’t need to look far before we come face to face with the sobering reality that Islamic terrorist cells are, today, already forming within our own borders.

      In February 2007 Dave Gaubatz, a former U.S. Federal Agent and State Department Arabic linguist, wrote in “American Thinker” that “There is every reason to suspect that we will endure suicide missions by Islamist sleeper cells. They are already in place. They are waiting for the right time. I know this from experience.” [1] His warning was brought to light again in January 2009 when Homeland Security released a detailed report revealing the growing threat of one such terrorist group, stating:

      “An official government report concludes the Iranian-backed Islamic terror group [Hezbollah] has been forming sleeper cells throughout the United States that could become operational.

      The report estimates Hezbollah could become a much more potent national security threat by 2014. The group was responsible for the 1983 Beirut Marine Barracks bombing, which killed 241 U.S. Marines and 58 French servicemen.

      ‘The Lebanese Shiite group Hezbollah does not have a known history of
 fomenting attacks inside the U.S., but that could change if there is some
 kind of ‘triggering’ event, the homeland assessment cautions,’ the report

      The report, obtained by the Middle East Newsline and marked “for official use only,” did not define a ‘triggering
 event.’ Most of the threats cited in the report had been raised by the
 Homeland Security Department.
” [2]

      To contextualize the potential magnitude of what this could entail, consider the number of Muslims living in Western nations today. Although I believe that the vast majority of Muslims want to live in peace we cannot allow ourselves to become comatose to the reality that there are those who do not want to live in peace with the “infidel.” There are tens of millions of Muslims living in western countries, with an estimated 5-7 million Muslims living in the United States alone. Can we begin to imagine the havoc to be wrought if even 10% of them were to engage in terrorist activities to secure themselves a place in paradise? This could be at least 500,000 radicalized followers of the ‘prophet Mohammad’ who want us dead for the cause of Dar al Islam. The Fort Hood killer, a Muslim US Army Major, waged his own jihad and took 13 lives. This was just one man with a gun. Imagine what half a million all throughout the country wielding guns and knives could do with similar intent.

      If Islamists are a very minority sect of Muslims that don’t know how to read their Qur’an, I welcome your interpretation of the following verses:

      Surah 2:191, “Kill disbelievers wherever you find them… If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.”

      Surah 2:216, “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.”

      Surah 2:244, “Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah heareth and knoweth all things.”

      Surah 3:151, “We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve…”

      Surah 4:89, “Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them.”

      Surah 4:91, “If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant.”

      Surah 5:51, “O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he among you that turns to them for friendship is of them.”

      Surah 8:15-16, “O ye who believe! when ye meet the Unbelievers preparing for battle do not turn your backs to them. [Anyone who does] shall incur the wrath of Allah, and Hell shall be his home,- an evil dwelling (indeed)!”

      Surah 9:123, “O you who have believed, fight those adjacent to you of the disbelievers and let them find in you harshness…”

      Surah 10:45, “On the last day Allah will kill all the disbelievers (and then he will torture them forever in hell).”

      This is but a small example. For your consideration, I also encourage you to read through this brief commentary on Revelation 13 and view the End Times Today episodes made by a former Muslim terrorist.

      Blessings …


    • Steve
      08/01/2011 at 3:44 AM

      If Islam has nothing to do with the Beast, then why did the Holy spirit deny people to preach Christianity in Asia in Paul’s time? Why did God let it spread all over the world to be the only Christianity rival? Isn’t there an image in Mecca (the Land of Shinar) which all islamists must bow down to (Remember the basket with the harlot whose base was to be established in the land of Shinar?


    • 09/14/2015 at 11:57 PM

      John, is it possible that I found you out of all the people on the world wide web??? Julie.


  9. 06/08/2011 at 3:32 PM

    john :
    …Your idea of islam is a very minority sect of muslims that don’t know how to read their koran…

    That’s almost laughable, except for the tragic reality.


    • Anonymous
      06/18/2013 at 7:29 AM

      I’m afraid with all these alarming evidences pointing to the horror of your Allah , you are still making argument that the beast Jn revelAtion 13,17&18 is not Islam . Look at the teachings of Christ n that of Mohammed , the difference is clear . Love and hate cannot work together. Peace and war cannot coexist . Jesus is peace while Mohammed preaches jihadism against infidels. Look at Muslim nations, all you see is war war war , violence violence violence , backwardness backwardness backwardness , oppression oppression , it’s terrible what Islam is, and you Are defending this. Have a look at Muslim nations and see common features of anarchy and bloodshed : Iraq . Pakistan , Kashmir , Lebanon , gaza, Syria , Libya , northern Nigeria , Mali , Somalia, Sudan , Algeria , Yemen , Afghanistan , Chechnya , compare this with Christian nations though many of these Christian countries have now abandon their true faith and yet the influence of the holy Bible is seen in all they do, USA , Scotland , England , Germany, Norway , Switzerland , Sweden, Denmark , Iceland , Poland , Portugal , south , east and western Nigeria , Cameroun , Ghana , Israel the origin of Christianity , Canada , Italy , Malta , Finland , chec republic , South Korea , Singapore , Bolivia , Bahamas , the freedom in all these part of the world is mind bugling But try the Muslim nations and you will be shocked to your very foundational leaning .
      Therefore , repent from your sins and be born again before its late. Simply believe that Jesus is the uniquely only begotten don of the God the father , died , buried and resurrected on the third day . May God help you .


  10. Eddy
    06/22/2011 at 11:42 AM

    This makes so much sense to me I am surprised most teachers don’t at least offer this as an alternative explanation. Some though wont change their view anyway because they are too invested in the old ideas and they would have to rewrite their books and redo their videos and admit they were probably wrong. And if wrong about this, what else are they wrong about.


  11. ICA
    06/22/2011 at 5:17 PM

    Good point about some teachers being too invested in one particular point of view. It’s true for many areas of eschatology, particularly rapture timing. Imagine what would happen if Tim Lahaye and Jerry Jenkins came out and stated they were no longer pre-trib, or no longer believed that the Mark of the Beast was literal. They should take a cue from The Gospel Tract Society, but I suspect they will never follow suit.


  12. bob
    06/23/2011 at 1:24 AM

    The mark is a physical mark. It could also include a genetic component to make the receiver abominable to god. And it could also include a masonic/luciferian type of initiation where an oath is sworn to satan. Also, look at Heath Ledger’s character in “The Imaginarium of Dr. Parnasus.” The film itself is seriously dark and contains a lot of illuminati symbolism. There is also the mark on his forehead at the beginning of the film. He was thrown from the freedom train not long after the film was made.
    Think about the conditions of the time in which the mark will be given. The world will be dark, starving and disease ridden. Billions will have already perished and the demonic world will be unleashed to torment men on earth. You think they will be averse to taking the mark? I think not. There will be no way out and it will appear hopeless to all. Sorcery is the recipe for strong delusion and it is at work even today. Wake up!


    • ICA
      06/23/2011 at 10:16 AM

      Physical mark, genetic components, Masonic conspiracies, Heath Ledger, sorcery … Bob my friend, I think you’ve been watching too many movies.


    • Anonymous
      02/02/2014 at 4:10 PM

      You are correct about the masonic oath, the illuminati, and Islam worship of a false god. The truth is they are all connected to the ‘whore”; created by the Vatican and the Royals, together they control, Islam, Hollywood, and the Elite organizations along with some Ivy league organizations. These are all connected.


  13. 06/23/2011 at 2:39 AM

    bob :
    The mark is a physical mark.

    God seals the righteous in the OT:

    The LORD said to him, “Go through the midst of the city, even through the midst of Jerusalem, and put a mark [h8420 תו tav] on the foreheads of the men who sigh and groan over all the abominations which are being committed in its midst.” Eze 9:4

    God seals the righteous in the NT:

    They were told not to hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, but only the men who do not have the seal [g4973 σφραγίς sphragis] of God on their foreheads. Rev 9:4

    God marks the unrighteous in the OT:

    And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark [h226 אות ‘owth] upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. Gen 4:15

    God marks the unrighteous in the NT (By God ‘sovereignly’ allowing a person to choose to be marked, he is thus marked by God):

    And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark [g5480 χάραγμα charagma] on their right hand or on their forehead Rev 13:16

    Were/Are these physical or spiritual seals and marks? Is God so dull that He needs a physical mark to tell when someone is marked?


  14. 06/23/2011 at 10:49 AM

    ICA, same thing occurred to me–most of the images people get of Earth during the ‘Tribulation’ is like some Post-Apocalyptic movie. Some Christians are accused of reading Bible prophecy in one hand and the newspaper in the other, as if that’s bad. I actually wish more Christians would do that.

    Personally I think believers have gone way off the mark of what is meant by ‘tribulation’ (definitely small ‘t’) in Matthew and Luke; they have swapped the actual ‘end’, which comes suddenly, with a fairy tale end–the ‘Rapture.’ The other mistake they make is, that since we can’t know when ‘the Rapture’ is going to happen, they stop looking for the Return of Christ, when over and over we’re implored to ‘watch’ so it doesn’t come upon us like ‘a thief in the night’. These are fairly simple concepts.


  15. ICA
    06/23/2011 at 11:27 AM

    Yes, some have made the tribulation out to be so horrible over every square inch of land on the planet that no one could ever possibly survive as they run for their lives from the axe-wielding Antichrist police carrying portable guillotines, tattoo kits and chip implanters. That sort of idea is pretty much required for some of the pop-theology ideas to work for people, but it is fiction. Kind of makes you wonder how anyone could ever possibly find the time to “make merry, and send gifts to one another” near the end of the tribulation (Rev. 11:10) if the world is nearly completely destroyed, or how there could ever be a place in the “wilderness” that is safe from the hands of Antichrist (Rev 12:6) if the whole world will be tormented by blood-drunk demonic hordes.

    1 Thess 5:2-6, “For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, ‘Peace and safety!’ then sudden destruction comes upon them … But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief … Therefore let us not sleep, as others [do], but let us watch and be sober.”

    Revelation 3:3, “Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.”

    Paul implores us to watch for the Day of the Lord, and it can be demonstrated repeatedly from Scripture that this Day is immediately after the tribulation …


  16. Ray
    07/05/2011 at 9:47 AM

    The mark is simply the opposite of the seal of the Holy Spirit. One is either sealed by the spirit or marked by the Beast. No one believes there is a physical seal on a believers heart, yet the word seal taken by itself would refer to a physical seal. So it should not be too difficult to see a greater spiritual meaning to the mark.

    The greater picture/meaning is that Christians will be tempted to go along with society in order to get along and avoid persecution. It may seem on the outset a better decision to follow the world. But those who have the mark are ultimately doomed while those who have the seal will be rescued not just from the first death but from the second.


  17. ICA
    07/27/2011 at 11:43 AM

    Here is another very good video on the Mark of the Beast.


  18. Anonymous
    07/28/2011 at 10:45 PM

    I was just going to post this same video! He’s got some other good stuff on his website:



  19. ICA
    07/29/2011 at 12:26 PM

    Yes, looks interesting. He does give an excellent rundown of the Spring Feasts of the Lord, though he boxes in the Fall Feasts inside of a traditional dispensational hermeneutic.


  20. Anonymous
    07/29/2011 at 1:54 PM

    I didn’t get that far. Is he pre-trib?


    • ICA
      07/29/2011 at 2:13 PM

      Apparently, yes.

      Edit: Correction. Just learned that he is in fact post-trib (read here), though the impression I had initially was pre-trib judging from the Feasts of the Lord chapter posted online from his book.


  21. Anonymous
    07/29/2011 at 2:05 PM

    Jim Staley of Passon for Truth ministries taught an excellent four part series. He consulted Joel Richardson a lot while putting this together. Have you seen it? Here is <strong>part one.


  22. Willard
    07/30/2011 at 9:00 PM

    Some interesting thoughts



  23. Willard
    07/31/2011 at 1:37 PM
  24. 08/01/2011 at 3:23 PM

    I’ve watched (actually listened during work) to two of the End Times series by Jim Staley, and have begun the third. Very insightful; I would also recommend.


  25. Willard
    08/01/2011 at 10:48 PM

    ICA / KURT / Anonymous

    YOUR THOUGHTS – Would you agree that in the verse below item # 3 broke down for clarification that the way John has worded this that it would seem to indicate that he is pointing to an organization and not a person when refering to the number of his name like (Islam or Mecca) AND OVER the number of his name??? It does not seem to be indicated pointed to a person.

    Rev 15:2 And I saw what looked like a sea of glass mixed with fire and, standing beside the sea, those who had been victorious 1) ( over the beast) …… 2) (and his image) ….. 3) (and over the number of his name).


  26. ICA
    08/01/2011 at 11:05 PM

    It is possible. A little while back I revised the article “2 Thessalonians 2:4 — A Rebuilt Jewish Temple, or Something Else?” to include the following consideration:

    4. There is also one final point that needs to be considered as well with respect to the ‘man of sin’. We should not discount the possibility that the ‘man of sin’ may not be pointing to one single person as it were, though the general consensus is precisely that, but could instead be pointing to one single entity. Just as the ekklesia of God is comprised of a great multitude of believing Jews and Gentiles created as ‘one new man’ in Christ who are marked by God (Eph. 2:15, Rev. 14:1) and described by John in Revelation 7 as the ‘multitude of the lamb‘, the ‘man of sin’ (2 Thess 2:3) may simply be its direct antithesis comprised of those who have the Mark of the Beast and described by John in Revelation 13 as the ‘multitude of a man‘ — the false prophet Mohammed. If this is the case, then we may be even closer to the cusp of prophetic fulfillment than many of us realize.”


  27. 08/02/2011 at 10:53 AM

    I watched (listened, actually) to all 4 installments of Staley’s end times series. VERY interesting. One point he made is that all through history there is a battle between good and evil, initially starting with Satan’s fall–this then translates to the human dimension–Seth & Cain, Isaac & Ishmael, Jacob & Esau, Christ & Antichrist…I don’t know why it couldn’t be ‘man of God’ & ‘man of sin’ in the generic, general sense.

    On another note, if anyone else watched all of the Staley videos, what is your sense of his ‘keeping the law’, ‘we are still under Torah’ notion, ala Rev. 12:17:

    So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.


  28. ICA
    08/02/2011 at 12:40 PM

    The word “Torah” means ‘instruction’ or ‘direction’ regarding how to live rightly before God and man. According to Jesus, all of the Law and Prophets hung upon these two commandments:

    Matthew 22:36-38, “‘Teacher, which [is] the great commandment in the law?’ Jesus said to him, ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is [the] first and great commandment. And [the] second [is] like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.'”

    John 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

    But we *do not* keep the old law contained in ordinances (Gal 5:4) – the rules and requirements of the law of Moses with the various civil, ceremonial, sacrificial, and dietary laws. These have been fulfilled. They have been satisfied with Christ and have been nailed to the cross with Him.

    Col 2:13-14, “When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.”

    If we keep the two commandments upon which all of the law and prophets hung upon — loving God with all our heart, soul and mind, and loving our neighbor as we love ourselves — then we ‘keep the intent of the moral law’ of the Torah, even today. Remember, Scripture repeatedly refers to Jewish believers and Gentile believers in Messiah in singular terms — “made both one”, “one new man from the two”, “one body”, “fellow citizens”, “household”, “built together”. Christianity is fulfilled Judaism, and although the old law contained in ordinances has been made obsolete, the moral law of God remains.


  29. 08/02/2011 at 2:28 PM

    But just to be clear, I think we have died to ALL law, INCLUDING the 10 commandments. See for example Romans 7:6-7: we’re released from the law, and the example Paul gives is one of the 10 commandments (“You shall not covet”).

    I’m pretty sure Staley believes we are still responsible to keep the 10 commandments, including, in particular, the Sabbath. I believe they meet Saturday. That’s the one that always pricks my conscience, and when I listen to people like Staley or SDAs I find myself questioning my beliefs.

    But, on the other hand, the Word is clear, as you’ve quoted above.


    • ICA
      08/02/2011 at 5:01 PM

      Here is my view, for your consideration: It is not the Ten Commandments that were against us, which demanded the death penalty for sin. What was nailed to the cross with Christ was “the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us“. Christ paid the penalty of death for us (the penalty which the lawbreaker had to pay) and he took our place. He became our substitution. So in my view the Ten Commandments are not included here, or referred to here. Those are for us, not opposed to us. Here is a site that speaks about this in detail.


      With respect to the Sabbath, this is one that is often misunderstood. The Sabbath rest was a foreshadowing of Messiah and under the New Covenant, the Sabbath no longer refers to a Saturday any more than the Temple refers to a stone building in Jerusalem. We are the ekklesia, the Spiritual Temple, and our Sabbath is now fulfilled in Yeshua. He has become our Sabbath rest.


      Keep the meat, spit out the bones.

      Edit: Here is a video precisely on the Sabbath.


    • Tammy L McGaa
      01/02/2017 at 7:08 AM

      Hello, I just wanted to weigh in on this topic, if that is ok. Kurt, CHRIST says, if you love ME, keep MY commandments. We are also told, if we say we love GOD, yet do not obey HIM, the truth is not in us, and we are none of HIS. This begs the question of what do we obey? We already know CHRIST did away with laws dealing with sacrifices and what not. But what HE did not do away with was the ten commandments. How do we know this? Because they can be found in both the O.T. and the N.T. because when the rich young man asked what he needed to do to be saved, one of the requirements was to keep the commandments. And honestly, I dont understand why christians have issues with keeping them, they are not burdens. My own dad told me GOD never intended us to obey them, they were merely a guideline on how to live. My response? GOD isnt in the habit of wasting HIS breath so to speak. When HE gave Moses the original ten commandments, HE most certainly expected them to be obeyed…and HE still does. As for the sabbath, this is my belief; on the 7th day of creation, GOD rested, and HE sanctified that day. Part of the ten commandments is to keep the sabbath. If we break one of the ten commandments, we break them all.therefore, the sabbath is part of GODs covenant with HIS people…not just the Israelites, but all mankind, since HE created the sabbath before there were any Israelites. I believe keeping GODs sabbath ties in to the mark of the beast. How? The mark will be given to those who choose to obey man rather than GOD. Man changed GODs sabbath from the seventh day to the first. Choosing to observe sunday sabbath over GODs saturday sabbath is choosing obedience to man over obedience to GOD. This is my belief.


        04/27/2017 at 10:28 PM

        The mark of the beast in the right hand or on the forehead is spiritual, and identical to when people pledge allegiance to the flag…When people pledge allegiance to the flag they use their right hand to their heart, and when they use their right hand to their heart, there is no physical mark in their right hand, because the mark of the pledge allegiance to the flag is spiritual, and in the heart…Or when people salute the flag they use their right hand to salute the flag, and when they salute the flag there is no physical mark on their forehead, because the mark is spiritual, and in the mind…The mark of the beast in the right hand means the name of the beast is in the heart…And the mark of the beast on the forehead means the name of the beast is in the mind…It is written; For with the heart we believe and with the mind we serve…When the Germans saluted Hitler, or when the Germans pledge allegiance to the flag, or to Hitler, they use their right hand, and when they used their right hand, there was no physical mark in their right hand, because the mark was spiritual, and in the heart or in the mind of the believer…The false prophet in Revelation, deceives the people with signs and wonders, and those who are being deceived by the sings and wonders are going to worship the beast as God almighty…The false prophet is doing miracles in the presence of the beast, and its by those signs that he causes those who are being deceive to receive (accept) the mark (name) of the beast in the right hand (heart) or on the forehead (mind)…The mark of the beast in the right hand or on the forehead is spiritual…Those who don’t believe what God said in Ex.20:1-5, and De.4:15-19, are going to worship the beast…The devil and the beast want to be worship, according to Revelation…According to Revelation, the beast is a man, and the false prophet is a man…And Satan is the devil…Those who are pledging allegiance to the flag, or those who are saluting the flag, or those who are singing the national anthem are committing fornication with idols…The founding fathers of the nations made images of the stars, the moon, the sun, of birds, and four footed beasts, in the likeness of heaven above and in the likeness of the earth below…The god of the U.S. is the star spangled of heaven and the eagle of the earth…The god of Canada is the maple leaf of the tree of the earth…The god of Mexico is the eagle and serpent of the earth…The god of Japan is the sun of heaven…The god of Israel is the star remphan of heaven Acts 7…When the king of Babylon the great played the national anthem at the sound of music, the Babylonians citizens fell down and worship the gold image…Today when the U.S. plays the national anthem at the sound of music, the U.S. citizens stand on their feet to sing a song to the star spangled of heaven…The nations idols are high and lifted up on a flag pole, and those who are serving the flag are called “idol worshippers”…God calls this type of flag service “idolatry”…The devil uses Romans 13 to deceive those who are pledging allegiance to the flag, because they do not believe what God said in Ex.20:1-5, and De.4:15-19.


  30. 08/02/2011 at 2:29 PM

    ICA – your comments in #30

    QUOTE ICA — There is also one final point that needs to be considered as well with respect to the ‘man of sin’. We should not discount the possibility that the ‘man of sin’ may not be pointing to one single person as it were, though the general consensus is precisely that, but could instead be pointing to one single entity—

    Regards what you say above that should be considered regards the man of sin. I am doing some serious reading in Rev and something which popped out just now is this – man of sin – the so called Beast out of the sea, which may mean out of the sea of people or out of the
    muslim nations??

    I have always understood that it was the beast himself that got the – head wound and lived – but this is not what John tells us. He tells us that it is ONE OF THE HEADS of the seven which had the fatal wound and lived – which may or may not have been the calphite of the Ottomans. This may agree with your thoughts that you are pointing to one when you suggest that it may not be a single person but rather that it could instead be pointing to one single entity—like the SEVENTH HEAD revived or raised from the dead

    Rev 13:1 …. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. Rev 13:2 The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion.The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. Rev 13:3 One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast

    Up to now I have understood these 7 heads to be Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Greco-Rome, the Ottoman empire with the eighth being the final A/C ?? and the 10 horns possibly the ten Islamic nations we see within the Arab spring right now.

    Each Head had a blasphemous name which would be true as each of these empires had a false God and false religion


  31. Anonymous
    08/03/2011 at 12:36 AM

    Hey guys – this is “AtHisFeet” by the way. I guess I need to re-register or something, as I am showing up as Anonymous these days.

    I posted the Staley video above. Glad you enjoyed them, Kurt. I did too. I think they would be especially helpful to introduce folks to the whole Islamic, post-trib paradigm teaching.

    I do believe he pastors a “messianic” congregation, in which they emphasize the “Hebrew roots” of Christianity and believe we ought to still be keeping the Sabbath, celebrating the feast days, etc. I have no problem with that – in fact I have been very edified learning from guys like Staley, Mark Biltz, in giving me a deeper understanding of the Jewish mindset, cultural background, meanings behind the law, etc. It definitely adds another layer to my biblical studies.

    That being said, I think you are spot-on, ICA. Jesus is indeed our Sabbath. The Sabbath was a foreshadowing of the fullness of rest to come in Christ, just as animal sacrifice foreshadowed His death, the temple rituals foreshadowed His role as our High Priest, the feast days foreshadowed His death, resurrection and Second Coming, etc.

    I see the Sermon on the Mount as the pivotal moment when Jesus led us out from the old convenant and into the new. He began by saying “You have heard it taught….” and then would quote one of the commandments of the law (old covenant). He then would say, “BUT I TELL YOU….” and take us to the heart of the law, which is spiritual, not external (new covenant). These are His new commandments. Romans 14 and 15 also deals with the difference between believers who lean toward “law-keeping” and those who believe they have freedom in such issues – “One man considers one day above all others, another considers every day the same. Let each one be fullly convinced in his own mind.” Messianic believers keep these commandments as unto the Lord, and God bless them. Hopefully, they will extend the same blessing to those of us who do not see it as they do.

    As for whether the beast is an individual or corporate entity – I think we are just going to have to wait until we see it happen. Which may not be too long a wait the way things are going.


  32. 08/03/2011 at 12:39 AM

    OK, now I’ve watched/read all the links you posted. Actually, they’re very contradictory, particularly the first one from the rest.

    Of all 4, the one I mostly closely agree with is the PP Simmons video–in fact there was nothing I in it I didn’t agree with.

    But the bible does also clearly say, on one hand:

    So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus(Rev 12:17)


    Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven(Mt 5:19)

    On the other hand:

    For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. (Romans 10:4)

    For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God. (Gal 2:19)

    The Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. (Gal 3:24, 25)

    But now that you have come to know God…how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years. (Gal 4:9, 10)

    The whole Law is fulfilled in… the statement, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF. (Gal 5:14)

    If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. (Gal 5:18)


    I think I will continue to believe what I’m believing, and encourage people to keep the 10 commandments, with the caveat that it is through Christ that we are able to do this, and if we fail (which we do), He has paid the penalty.


    • ICA
      08/03/2011 at 1:59 AM

      Hi Kurt, I think the confusion comes in when we read the word “law” in verses like Galatians 5:4 or 5:18, and then automatically assume that this means every single law and commandment of the Old Testament is made obsolete. But that obviously can’t be the case if we are exhorted in the New Testament to ‘keep the commandments of God’. So we should ask ourselves, “Which commandments?” Perhaps we should first begin by considering Christ’s words in Matthew 5:17, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill”, and from there ask ourselves, “Under the New Covenant, what laws does Jesus’ death and resurrection fulfill?” In light of Col 2:13-14, “What was ‘nailed to the cross’?” Although the OT doesn’t have separate sections on ‘ceremonial law’ or ‘civil law’ or ‘moral law’, for instance, in my way of thinking what was fulfilled with Christ and what was nailed to the cross with Him were any and all laws that dealt with sin, salvation, sacrifice and sentencing (punishment). But the ‘moral commandments’ (Ten Commandments) which dealt with our relationship with God and with each other remain. Although following these are not what brings us salvation (we are only saved by grace through faith in Christ), they do show us how to live holy lives:

      Is it ok to have other gods before YHWH? No.
      Is it ok to create graven images or have idols as objects of worship? No.
      Is it ok to take the Lord’s name in vain? No.
      Is it ok to ignore God’s ‘Sabbath’ rest (now fulfilled in Yeshua)? No.
      Is it ok to dishonor our mother and father? No.
      Is it ok to murder? No.
      Is it ok to commit adultery? No.
      Is it ok to steal? No.
      Is it ok to lie about our neighbor? No.
      Is it ok to covet anything that belongs to our neighbor? No.

      So these commandments are obviously not abolished. IMHO.


    • Tammy L McGaa
      05/27/2016 at 9:46 PM

      I realize I am a bit late to this conversation, but I just wanted to share my beliefs concerning this issue. We are told…if you say you love GOD, yet do not obey HIM, then the truth is,not in you and you are none of HIS..and…if you love ME, keep MY commandments. When we love our parents, we are obedient and faithful. When we love GOD, we are obedient and faithful. Obedience is an expression of love, and sets us apart from those who do not love GOD. It also ties in with the mark…love/obedience= action. We can say anything, but our actions are proof of the convictions of the heart. The ten commandments are not burdens to be avoided, but there is peace and joy in obeying them. As for the Sabbath…I believe it also ties in to the mark. GOD established HIS Sabbath on the seventh day of the week. False religion (man) changed it to the first day of the week. Remember, our actions show who we give our allegiance to. Keeping sunday sabbath aligns with man and false religion…keeping saturday Sabbath aligns with GOD and HIS Truth. At least, that is how I see it.


      • 09/18/2016 at 4:40 PM

        Considering Anonymous (at his feet) said 8/3/11. “That being said, I think you are spot-on, ICA. Jesus is indeed our Sabbath. The Sabbath was a foreshadowing of the fullness of rest to come in Christ, just as animal sacrifice foreshadowed His death, the temple rituals foreshadowed His role as our High Priest, the feast days foreshadowed His death, resurrection and Second Coming, etc”

        And ICA 8/3/11 said. “Is it ok to ignore God’s ‘Sabbath’ rest (now fulfilled in Yeshua)? No”. So what does this mean?

        Considering the sabbath rest, and has Jesus actually fulfilled it or is it still coming?

        2 Thessalonians 1:6-7 For it is a righteous thing with God to recompense with tribulation those who trouble you; and to you who are troubled, “rest” with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels,

        Daniel 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be; for thou shalt “rest”, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.”

        It appears from these verses that the sabbath is a reminder of the actual rest that is coming for the believer during the millennial kingdom at the coming of Messiah.

        So should we still keep the sabbath, probably we will wish we had, I agree with
        Kurt J on 6/2/11
        I’m pretty sure Staley believes we are still responsible to keep the 10 commandments, including, in particular, the Sabbath. I believe they meet Saturday. That’s the one that always pricks my conscience, and when I listen to people like Staley or SDAs I find myself questioning my beliefs.

        If our conscience is pricked we probably are missing something, although I understand not everyone’s conscience is pricked. So I’m not sure that Jesus has yet fulfilled this commandment, does that then mean we should keep it?


  33. Anonymous
    08/03/2011 at 12:51 AM

    Yes, Willard, I have believed for a long time that the head that received the fatal wound was the empire, not the individual A/C. And, I also agree that the sea is the nations (gentiles) out of which the beast rises. Definitely could be the nations that are now in turmoil.

    Ever noticed how prophetic the Psalms are? I have been going through Psalms lately with a specific eye toward the prophetic. It’s awesome. Psalm 2 asks “Why do the nations rage and the people devise a vain thing, the kings of the earth take their stand adn the rulers gather together against the Lord and against His Anointed One.” Psalm 46 speaks of the nations in an uproar, Psalm 65 speaks of the roaring of the seas as the turmoil of the nations, Psalm 83 speaks of the nations conspiring to wipe out Israel. Psalms is not usually categorized with the prophetic books, but it is chock full of prophecy. Wonderful.

    So, it is not hard to imagine that “seas” equals “nations”, i.e. gentile, i.e. Muslim – as it is the muslim nations that are in an uproar, in turmoil and surrounding Israel.



    • ICA
      08/03/2011 at 2:06 AM

      I see it the same way, and right now the ‘sea and the waves’ are roaring …


  34. Anonymous
    08/03/2011 at 1:09 AM

    Hey Kurt,

    A lot of us have wrestled with Matt. 5:19. But, take that whole passage in context. He said he came to fulfill the law (which He did). He said our righteousness needed to surpass that of the scribes and Pharisees, who were meticulous in law-keeping. If He was saying that believers would need to keep the law, then His statement makes no sense. No one could surpass the Pharisees in law-keeping. So what commandments was He talking about? He was talking about the commandments He was about to teach in the Sermon on the Mount. Remember, He would quote the law (which the Pharisees kept), and then say believers were to transcend that law, go beyond the external rituals to the internal heart level of the spirit.

    Now, if He was warning against breaking the commandments illiterated in the SotM, that makes a lot of sense to me. I mean, read through Matt. 5-7 and think about how much of it has been neglected or downright disregarded by the church today. Do we give without our right hand knowing what our left hand is doing? NO – we pass that plate so that everyone can see whether we are giving or not. There is much that He taught in this passage that is dismissed by contemporary Christianity.



  35. 08/03/2011 at 1:20 AM

    AHF – What I am finding so very interesting the last 2 years or so that scripture is being opened to me like never before – stuff that I have read and studied for years all of a sudden has become much more clear – but I must admit it still is a struggle to fit all of the pieces of the
    mystery or puzzle together in a cohersive picture – but it is becoming clearer and clearer day by day – sites like this are a great help where ideas and thoughts of others are shared and debated – I look at notes that I made in my bible 10 and 15 years ago and the picture has really changed from the RCC being the A/C to a much clearer picture of Islam being the A/C source



  36. 08/03/2011 at 10:52 AM

    ICA, Re Post #39, yes, I agree with you that the OT isn’t divided into moral, civil, ceremonial law, and there is certainly a difference between the 10, and all others. But here’s the problem we (by that I mean ‘I’) have then, best illustrated by asking this question: Which is the only command of the 10 that you gave a caveat to?

    Lets see:

    ICA :
    …to take the Lord’s name in vain? No.
    Is it ok to ignore God’s ‘Sabbath’ rest (now fulfilled in Yeshua)? No.
    Is it ok to dishonor our mother and father? No.
    Is it ok to…

    That is what really gets to me! Maybe I’m just OCD, undiagnosed.


  37. ICA
    08/03/2011 at 12:53 PM

    The New Testament declares the Sabbath fulfilled in Christ and is explicit to show us that it is not the ‘day’ that needs to be remembered as a time of rest, but rather our rest in Christ. The Pharisees were blinded to the spiritual reality when they accused Christ as not being from God when they said, “This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day.” (John 9:16). Did Christ really break one of His own commandments? Of course not …

    When we think of the lamb of God, we no longer think of an animal, we think of Yeshua (John 1:29). When we think of our High Priest, we no longer look to a man in a physical temple to offer sacrifices, we look to Yeshua (Heb 6:20). When we think of ‘offering sacrifices’ we no longer shed the blood of goats and bulls (Heb 10:3-10), we offer up spiritual sacrifices to God through Yeshua (2 Peter 2:5). When we think of the Father’s House — the temple of God — we no longer envision a temple of stone in Jerusalem, we envision the ‘one new man’ in Yeshua built into his spiritual temple (Eph 2:15-22). When we think of circumcision, it is not circumcision of the flesh, but of the heart ( 1 Cor 17:19, Rom 2:29). When we think of the Sabbath and rest, we no longer think about resting on a specific day, we think about our rest in Yeshua (Heb 4:1-3, 9-11). We look now to the substance, not the shadow.


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