Home > Radical Islam, Theology and Eschatology > 2 Thessalonians 2:4 — A Rebuilt Jewish Temple, or Something Else?

2 Thessalonians 2:4 — A Rebuilt Jewish Temple, or Something Else?


By ICA

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, “Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day [the Day of the Lord] will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.”

A thought came to me some time ago with respect to “the temple of God” and how many students of Biblical eschatology expect there to one day be a new Jewish temple built on the Temple Mount before the Second Coming of Christ, one in which the Antichrist himself would eventually stand in and literally claim “I am God.” While an effort does exist by some orthodox Jewish groups to rebuild the third temple, I think it would be wise for all students of Scripture to consider the possibility that this may not have been what the Holy Spirit was referring to in 2 Thessalonians 2 and Matthew 24.

The Temple of God in the New Testament

To understand why, we first need to keep in mind that the Apostle Paul and Jesus both pointed to a Last Days event that would take place just before the Day of the Lord (Christ’s post-trib Second Coming). Paul referred to it as the “man of sin” who sets himself up in “the temple of God” (2 Thessalonians 2:4), while Jesus described it as the “Abomination of Desolation” standing in “the holy place” (Matthew 24:15).  Many have assumed that the temple mentioned by Paul must be a physical temple in Jerusalem. But if we look a little more closely at the text we begin to notice something that we may not have noticed before: Each and every time the Apostle Paul speaks about the “temple of God” and uses the Greek word “naos” (G3485) in Scripture he is always referring to believers both individually and collectively. He is referring to the Church:

1 Corinthians 3:16, “Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?”

1 Corinthians 3:17, “If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

1 Corinthians 6:19, “Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?”

2 Corinthians 6:16, “And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God …”

Ephesians 2:19-22, “Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”

Even the Apostle Peter agrees in 1 Peter 2, the only time he ever refers to God’s temple:

1 Peter 2:4-5, “Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.”

When Paul refers to the temple as the Church he uses the word “naos” (G3485) and always called the Church the temple of God or the temple of the Holy Spirit or an equivalent expression. In 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 Paul again refers to the temple of God (“naos” ) which, as in each and every other usage of the expression, would in my opinion again be referring to the Church as it always had before, not a physical temple. According to those who believe that a future literal temple will be rebuilt, however, we are expected to believe that Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 suddenly changes what he consistently meant in previous epistles when speaking about the temple of God. But if Paul spoke of the Church each and every time before, then it only stands to reason that he was again referring to the Church when writing about the temple of God in his letter to the believers in Thessalonica:

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, “Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in [eis G1519 – or against] the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.”

The only other times Paul spoke about a physical temple were in 1 Corinthians 9:13, Acts 25:8 and Acts 17:24. In 1 Corinthians 9:13 and Acts 25:8 he uses the word “hieron” (G2411) specifically to refer to the physical temple in Jerusalem. In Acts 17:24, however, he is quoted as using the word “naos” to refer to physical temples in general, however his entire point was that it was no longer a physical temple in which God dwells. Why? Because the Church was now that temple. In these instances where Paul spoke about a physical temple he never referred to it as “the temple of God” or an equivalent expression.

Acts 17:24, “God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands.”

The Temple of Revelation 11

With this thought in mind, let us now turn our attention to another portion of Scripture that many watchers of Biblical eschatology will often use to support the idea that we’re still waiting for a rebuilt Jewish temple. In the very first verse of Revelation 11 John writes:

Revelation 11:1, “Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, ‘Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there.'”

Many believe that if John could measure this temple using a physical tool like a reed, then the temple must itself be physical. This, however, need not be the case at all. Four quick reasons why:

1. The Angel who speaks to John uses the exact same expression in Revelation 11:1, saying, “Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.” Even the word “naos” is used when referring to the temple of God, the same word the Apostle Paul used when referring to the temple of God as the Church, not a temple made of stone.

2. The very first time we find the word “temple” in Revelation is in 3:12a regarding the Church in Philadelphia when Christ says, “He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more.” To be made a pillar in the temple of God must mean that the temple in view here is not a physical temple made of stone, but rather one that is made of people.

3. Lampstands/candlesticks were important items that were found in the physical temple in the Old Testament, yet John shows us that this time the lampstands/candlesticks in the temple of God are represented by the two witnesses (11:4), which again would indicate that the temple in view is not a physical temple made of stone, but rather one of people.

4. In the Old Testament a priest was one who served within the physical temple. In Revelation 1:6 and 5:10 we are told that anyone who has been washed by the blood of Christ is a priest, and the Christian understanding of this according to 1 Peter 2:5 is that as priests we now “offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.” We no longer offer animal sacrifices in a temple made of stone.

Indeed, we are being built together upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets with Jesus Himself as the chief cornerstone, a building in which all of us as believers are being fitted together, growing into a holy temple in the Lord for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit (Ephesians 2:19-22). Considering all that we have just learned, could it not therefore stand to reason that when John speaks of the “holy city” being trampled under foot in 11:2 that he is referring directly to God’s people, and not a physical temple built in Jerusalem? In my opinion, definitely (cf. Revelation 21 and Psalm 46:4, “There is a river whose streams make glad the city of God, the holy place where the Most High dwells”; also see Matthew 5:14).

The Prophet Daniel And The Time Of The End

Daniel’s prophecies often spoke about the last days leading up to the Second Coming of Christ. Some will point to these prophecies and assume that since Daniel appeared to speak of a physical temple and daily offerings that the last days temple must therefore be a literal temple in Jerusalem. As we can see from above, however, the New Testament is quite clear that today the “temple of God” is the Church and that we, as believers, now offer up the sacrifice of praise continually (cf. Romans 12:1; Hebrews 13:5; 1 Peter 2:5). Even if the prophet Daniel himself believed the prophecies he was given of the end times referred to a physical temple would not change this reality. The revelation that the Church would become the temple of God was progressive and prophets were evidently not always granted a full understanding of the prophecies they were given, which is quite apparent in Daniel 12 itself:

Daniel 12:8-10,Although I heard, I did not understand. Then I said, ‘My lord, what shall be the end of these things?’ And he said, ‘Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.’”

Even though Daniel was not always granted full understanding, he was faithful in recording the prophecies he had received. Not knowing that the temple of God would one day be the people of God, however, would have conceivably been somewhat bewildering to Daniel if he had himself assumed that it was a physical temple that would be defiled during the time of the end. This could very well have been one of the reasons why Daniel did not understand all that he was seeing and hearing. According to the words of the Apostle Paul in Acts 17:24, a physical temple today would be little more than an empty building, void of the presence of God. I am sure that Christ would have known this and would in no way have been referring to a physical temple as the “holy place” in Matthew 24:15 when referring to the Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel. A building absent of God is just another building. But the “holy temple” that is the Church in which God dwells, however, is another matter. This may have been why Jesus said “let the reader understand” in Matthew 24:15 — because Daniel did not:

Matthew 24:15, “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand–”

Ephesians 2:19-22, “… you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”

If Jesus in Matthew 24 and the Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2 are referring to the holy place that is the new spiritual temple of God — the Church — then it may be that all we need to watch for in this respect is “someone” of significant importance made manifest and rise up against the Ekklesia of God.  This new spiritual offensive could even commence as a physical offensive against Jews and Christians at the Temple Mount itself whereby this “someone” would proclaim himself to be something that only the true God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob can lay claim to. And what could that be?

Apart From Me There Is No …

The Muslim world — both the Sunni and Shia branches of Islam — is awaiting the arrival of a “messianic” figure whom they call “The Mahdi” or “The 12th Imam.” They believe that this figure will lead them into a new era of Islamic “justice” that would unite the Ummah (the false Islamic “church” as it were) and spread Islam throughout the earth (see here).  Of particular interest is the fact that Muslims view this man as “Savior” — not only for Muslims, but for all of humanity (see here and here).

In 2 Thessalonians 2:3-8 the Apostle Paul speaks about a “man of sin” or “lawlessness” setting himself “eis” (in or against) the temple of God, seeking to defile it, and then being destroyed by God at the brightness of His coming. In 1 Corinthians 3:17 Paul stated the exact same thing, saying, “If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.” In my view, this is certainly not a coincidence. Most translations say that before the “man of sin” is destroyed he will “sit” or “take his seat” in the temple of God. The Greek word for “sit” is “kathizō” (G2523) but it means more than to simply sit down physically, as one would sit on a chair. It also means to appoint, or to set or to confer a kingdom on someone. When we say that we have a sitting President or Head of State, for instance, it does not mean that they are physically sitting down. It means that they have taken their seat in office. According to the Greek, this “man of sin” will likewise be taking his seat or official position, which could possibly be referring to Islam’s Mahdi as he takes his seat as the proclaimed “Savior of Humanity” in defiance of Yahweh and His people. Thus the “man of sin” is called the “man of sin” for a very good reason: he sins against God and against His people — the Temple of God — whom he sets himself against once assuming the “office” as “Savior.” According to the Prophet Isaiah, this would be showing himself as God, for the Lord Himself declares in no uncertain terms that “apart from me there is no savior… I am God, and there is none like me” (Isaiah 43:11, 46:9b).

If anyone of signifance in the Muslim world — the “Mahdi” or otherwise — proclaims themself to be the “Savior of Humanity” that all must follow, this would be a direct affront to God and His Temple. According to Scripture, anyone making such a claim or accepting such a title would be showing themself to be God by having a title/position that only God can hold attributed upon them. Additionally, demanding that Judaism and Christianity (and all other religions for that matter) be abolished and forcing all under his power to convert to Islam and worship none other than “Allah” would in effect be causing the “sacrifice and oblations (offerings) to cease” in today’s Temple according to the verses of Scripture below:

Romans 12:1, “I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.”

Hebrews 13:15, “By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of [our] lips giving thanks to his name.”

1 Peter 2:5, “And now God is building you, as living stones, into his spiritual temple. What’s more, you are God’s holy priests, who offer the spiritual sacrifices that please him because of Jesus Christ.”

With these thoughts in mind, we’re now beginning to see the text in a whole new light.

The Nation of Israel and Other Considerations

One obvious question, however, would be how does this affect Jews living in the nation of Israel if 2 Thessalonians 2:4 and Matthew 24:15 are referring to the spiritual temple of God? There are a couple of possibilities that we could deduce from this thought, especially if we accept the likelihood that the coming Antichrist will be Islam’s awaited Mahdi:

1. The Mahdi (according to Islamic teaching) will not only claim to be the “Savior of Humanity” but will also be the driving force behind uniting a coalition of Islamic nations that come up against the nation of Israel. He will also desire to subjugate the world into converting to Islam, according to Islamic teaching. In this way, it would definitely have much bearing on national/physical Israel even if this is only referring to the spiritual temple of God.

2. It will have a direct bearing on all Messianic Jews who would — along with Gentile Christians — recognize this “Abomination of Desolation.” I do not believe that the Olivet Discourse or even the Book of Matthew as a whole was for an “orthodox” Jewish audience only as some contend (who would never read the book anyway, I fail to see the point) but rather I believe that it was for Messianic Jews  and, by extension, all Gentile Christians. Matthew 24:9 says, “… ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.” Orthodox Jews are not hated because of Jesus’ name, but Messianic Jews and Gentile Christians are. (In fact, even many orthodox Jews hate Messianics and Gentile Christians because they adhere to the faith of Jesus).

3. It is possible that there could be a dual fulfillment. Most translations render Matthew 24:15 as “standing IN the holy place” which causes those who read the English translation to envision a fully built temple. However, the word for “in” in the Greek is “en” (G1722) and is also translated as “on”, “by”, “at” or “with” in addition to “among”. Although some orthodox Jewish groups are actively seeking to rebuild the third temple, all that they require to offer sacrifices is an altar and an unblemished red heifer. (The alter began construction in July 29, 2009 and has been completed). This could be on the Temple Mount, or right beside the western wall (which I could see happening if they suddenly have a perfect red heifer but no rebuilt temple yet.) Perhaps this could be Christ’s reference to “standing in/on/by the holy place” and the reason why He did not mention a temple per se, whereas Paul could have been referencing the new spiritual temple of God comprised of Messianic Jews and Gentile Christians.

4.  There is also one final point that needs to be considered as well with respect to the “man of sin”.  We should not discount the possibility that the “man of sin” may not be pointing to one single person as it were, though the general consensus is precisely that, but could instead be pointing to one single entity or system.  The Ekklesia of God is comprised of a great multitude of believing Jews and Gentiles created as “one new man” in Christ who are marked by God (Eph. 2:15, Rev. 14:1) and described by John in Revelation 7 as the “multitude of the lamb”, ie, Jesus Christ. Conversely, the “man of sin” (2 Thess 2:3) could therefore be its direct antithesis comprised of those who have the Mark of the Beast and described by John in Revelation 13 as the “multitude of a man”, ie, the “prophet Mohammed.”  If this is the case, then we may be even closer to the cusp of prophetic fulfillment than many of us realize. In other words, Antichrist may not be a man at all, but rather all things entwined with the religion of Islam itself, a physical manifestation as it were of the spirit of Antichrist. Read the portion of this article subtitled “More Than Just A Man?” for more thoughts in this regard.

In conclusion, it is my belief that the intended meaning of the temple of God in 2 Thessalonians 2:4, keeping the overall context and teaching of the temple of God within the full counsel of the New Testament, is a direct reference to the Church, not a physical, rebuilt Jewish temple.  To show, declare or present himself as God does not necessitate that an “Islamic messiah” or the “man of sin” make an overt declaration of divinity. Jesus claimed to be God without telling the Sanhedrin “I am God”, for they understood the theological significance of His words and sought to kill Him because of them. Likewise, Antichrist could merely approach the temple mount where the Islamic Dome of the Rock and al-Aqsa mosque both stand and from there proclaim to be the world’s savior whom both Jews and Christians must follow. Not only would Messianic Jews and Gentile Christians recognize this as an affront to the faith of Christ and the significance of this event, even orthodox Jews would know that this would be a declaration of divinity, someone other than God showing himself to be God. They, too, understand Isaiah 43:11 where God makes it known that “I am the Lord, and apart from me there is no savior.” Indeed, “… I am God, and there is none like Me” (Isaiah 46:9).

  1. AtHisFeet
    04/15/2011 at 7:08 PM

    Another possibility may be that an entire rebuilt temple is not necessary, but simply an altar for sacrifice. A rabbi recently called for Passover sacrifices to be made on the Temple Mount in a Ynet news article here. More food for thought…

    “Holy place” need not apply to an entirely rebuilt temple, but the Temple Mount itself. Following this line of thought – there already seems to be an abomination in the holy place in the building of the Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa mosque. I understand that Jesus spoke of an abomination in the last days, it’s still something I have wondered might fit into the overall eventual fulfillment.

    Just thinking out loud. This is what goes on in my head all day. :)

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    • Boetica
      03/03/2012 at 1:04 AM

      I have thought the same thing about the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa mosque being the “Abomination of Desolation”. Even now the waqqf continues to destroy artifacts from Solomon’s Temple in their efforts to destroy the Jewish history of this holy place. If you look back in history it is their modus opperandi to destroy the history of conquered people.

      I have read as well that the mosque has been destroyed twice throughout history by earthquakes.

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  2. ICA
    04/15/2011 at 10:37 PM

    Yep, I see that exact possibility as well (#3 in ‘The Nation of Israel’ up above). And the Dome of the Rock is definitely an abomination, without a doubt. Inscribed on its walls regarding God are blasphemies such as, “Far be it removed from His transcendent majesty that He should have a son.”

    1 John 2:22, “He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.”

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  3. AtHisFeet
    04/26/2011 at 7:40 PM

    Here is something that woke me up at 4:00 a.m. this morning – is there a connection between Matt. 7:15-23 and 2 Thess. 2:3-9?

    In both passages we see apostasy, false prophets, lawlessness, lying signs and false wonders, etc. Rather than this man of lawlessness being from within Islam, is it possible that this man(entity?) arises from within the ekklesia? After all, inherent in the meaning of the word apostasy is the presumption that one was at one time an adherent to Christianity. Muslims can’t fall away from a faith they never had, right? And, the apostasy seems to be directly connected to the man of lawlessness being revealed. One seems to be a result of the other.

    It is interesting to me that Jesus called Judas the “son of destruction”, which is the same name given to the man of lawlessness in 2 Thess. Judas was a betrayer from within the ranks of the disciples. John also made the point in his first epistle that many antichrists had already arisen and that they “went out from among us, but they were not really of us” referring to those who had fallen away from the body of believers.

    Finally, Jesus warned that deceivers would come “in My name, saying I am the Christ” (Matt. 24:5). I know you know that translators added those quotation marks. I have always felt that Jesus might have perhaps been telling us that wolves in sheep’s clothing would come along, using His name and seeming to declare that they believe in Him as the Christ. And then, further on down in the text in vs. 24 He warns of false signs and wonders again. Which brings me full circle back to 2 Thess. 2, the man of lawlessness and the false signs and wonders he will perform.

    We know for sure that there are those claiming to do signs and wonders in the name of Christ right now, who do not truly know Him. Again, is there a connection? Just a jumble of thoughts right now. I’m still convinced that Islam is the beast of Revelation and the Mahdi must be the antichrist, but I can’t help but wonder about the flow of thought that seems to be present in all of these verses. Maybe someone can show me where I’m missing it or help me put this into a more coherent context. :)

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  4. ICA
    04/26/2011 at 8:49 PM

    Or consider this. Just yesterday I was listening to a video of Walid Shoebat teaching at a church and he said something about Islam that I have suspected for quite some time. He called Islam a “Christian Cult”. For all intents and purposes, the religion of Islam borrows bits and pieces from Christianity (both the Old Testament and New Testament) but then corrupts its teachings, twisting it, causing their own doctrines to become an “apostate” form of orthodox Christianity whereby they acknowledge Jesus, for instance, but deny His Divinity. They call Jesus the Christ, but then deny His death on the Cross. They proclaim Jesus as a prophet of God and born of the virgin Mary, but then deny God the Father and deny Jesus as the Son of God.

    The Islamic view of Jesus is much closer to the Jesus taught by a popular fourth century preacher named Arius. The “Arian Heresy” denied the deity of Jesus Christ and tried to ensure that Christians did not believe in multiple gods, as the Romans did, and in doing so denied the Trinity, declaring that Jesus was not God but a divinely created being [1]. Mohammed ran with bits and pieces of similar Judeo-Christian teachings and corrupted it even further by mingling it with a Babylonian moon-god religion, originally polytheistic, in which all gods were later abolished except for the supreme moon-god, Allah [2]. According to Islam, great signs and miracles of victory followed the illiterate prophet in his conquests, as well as the ultimate miraculous ‘sign from heaven’ in the form of a book which they call the ‘Holy Qur’an’ [3]. According to Islam, the true savior of humanity is not Jesus, but rather it is the coming Mahdi [4]. (In fact, many even call Mohammed himself the savior of humanity [5]).

    When all of this is considered, we can begin to see how Islam positions itself not only against the Christ of the Bible, but in place of the Christ of the Bible as well. It positions itself as the true faith of Abraham when Scripture calls believers in the Yeshua of the Bible the true children of Abraham. Islam, effectively, therefore tries to position the Ummah (Muslim community) as the true ekklesia of God when in reality it is anything but. It is the image of the Beast …

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  5. Kurt J.
    04/26/2011 at 11:40 PM

    AtHisFeet
    Rather than this man of lawlessness being from within Islam, is it possible that this man(entity?) arises from within the ekklesia? After all, inherent in the meaning of the word apostasy is the presumption that one was at one time an adherent to Christianity.

    See, now you’re working my side of the street. This is one of the biggest difficulties I have with the “Islam as Beast” scenario. Yes, I completely believe in Islam being involved in the end time attack on Israel that brings back Yeshua. And I’m moving again back toward it being THE Beast, but for many hundreds of years the ekklesia believed the Beast to be Roman Catholicism/the Papal System for the very reason you cite.

    The other big problem I have with pure futurism is that it ignores nearly two thousand years of church history. Does the book of Revelation really do this? Or does it take place “shortly” as is stated in 1:1?

    AtHisFeet
    Muslims can’t fall away from a faith they never had, right?

    I do like ICA’s answer to this:

    ICA
    When all of this is considered, we can begin to see how Islam positions itself not only against the Christ of the Bible, but in place of the Christ of the Bible as well. It positions itself as the true faith of Abraham when Scripture calls believers in the Yeshua of the Bible the true children of Abraham. Islam, effectively, therefore tries to position the Ummah (Muslim community) as the true ekklesia of God when in reality it is anything but. It is the image of the Beast …

    But then there’s this:

    AtHisFeet
    And, the apostasy seems to be directly connected to the man of lawlessness being revealed. One seems to be a result of the other.

    Unless the “conceptual” man of lawlessness is meant, then it seems that Mohammad doesn’t fit this bill, any more than the Papal System did/does.

    AtHisFeet
    Finally, Jesus warned that deceivers would come “in My name, saying I am the Christ” (Matt. 24:5)

    This also doesn’t seem to fit Muslims, really at all. They don’t claim to come in Jesus’ name.

    AtHisFeet
    We know for sure that there are those claiming to do signs and wonders in the name of Christ right now, who do not truly know Him.

    OK, now my curiosity is piqued–who/what group(s) are you referring to?

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  6. ICA
    04/27/2011 at 12:34 AM

    Kurt J. says, “The other big problem I have with pure futurism is that it ignores nearly two thousand years of church history. Does the book of Revelation really do this? Or does it take place “shortly” as is stated in 1:1?”

    No, I don’t think that it ignores history at all. The seals are throughout history in my view, the four horsemen of the apocalypse, as is the ‘woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feat’ (Rev 12:1-6). Perhaps the moon could be referring to Islam and the wars that Muslim armies have waged for the past 1260 years against the Judeo-Christian ‘witnesses’ in an effort to destroy them, but up until now has failed (cf Rev 11). Read more thoughts on the ‘Two Witnesses’ here.

    Kurt J. says, “Unless the ‘conceptual’ man of lawlessness is meant, then it seems that Mohammad doesn’t fit this bill, any more than the Papal System did/does.”

    The text doesn’t really say though that the ‘man of lawlessness’ is himself apostate. Only that the apostasy comes first (which I generally understood to be referring to some members of the ekklesia in general, cf Matt 24:10 ‘At that time many will turn away from the faith’ – NIV), after which the ‘man of lawlessness’ is revealed. If the text referred to him as the ‘man of apostasy’ a stronger argument could be made to equate him with the apostasy directly. But they can very much be mutually exclusive, though we could deduce otherwise.

    Kurt J. says, “This also doesn’t seem to fit Muslims, really at all. They don’t claim to come in Jesus’ name.”

    Muslims claim to come in the name of the Creator of the universe [1]. Jesus is the Creator of all things (Eph 3:9, Col 1:16, Rev 4:11). They also claim to be the only true path to salvation [2]. Jesus literally means salvation, and He is the only way (John 3:16, 14:6). Muslims may not need to state specifically that “I come in the name of Jesus” to actually come in His name, no more than Jesus had to say “I am God” to actually show others that He was God. Consider, too, that one of the names of Jesus according to Isaiah 9:6 is Prince of Peace — and all too often we hear time and time again how Islam is, according to Muslims, the religion of peace.

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  7. Anonymous
    06/25/2011 at 10:05 PM

    just wanted to write a note and say that I came across this article a few days ago and it really has me thinking thinking thinking. what gets me is that I never looked at the ‘temple’ in this way before but it is very scriptural and opens up a whole new way of studying the end times. thank you.

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  8. Dan
    11/30/2011 at 3:51 AM

    Interesting read. Understanding is key.

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  9. 03/06/2012 at 9:54 AM

    muslims beleive in Jesus,you must believe in jesu in order to be a muslim.And we also believe that he is giong to return.please do your research before commenting.We love,worship and believe in the creator the same way christians do,except we must understand the difference between the creator and christ. May Allah bless and keep you all,Amen

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    • Martin
      05/06/2012 at 5:35 PM

      But you deny his deity, that is the foundation that makes one antichrist. You believe in a Jesus but a false one who will break the cross (Christianity) and the swine (Jews)

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    • Yvonne
      12/07/2012 at 6:18 AM

      muslims believe in Jesus only as a prophet, not as the son of God.

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  10. ICA
    03/06/2012 at 3:13 PM

    Hi BTM, thank you for your comment. The Muslim Jesus that is portrayed in the Qur’an is not the same Jesus of the Bible that we as Christians believe in. For your consideration, please see the article titled “A Few Simple Questions for Muslim Visitors” to understand why we believe this. May Yahweh guide you to His Truth and bless you.

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  11. iamnotashamedofthegospelofchrist
    03/06/2012 at 7:22 PM

    I agree with you 100%. A few years ago when we were studying this we got the same message. Another reason I agree with this is that Jesus told his desciples to look at the temple not one stone would be left unturned. He didn’t say not one stone will be left unturned until the end of days when they rebuild it. So that always stuck in my mind. And the abomination that causes desolation already exists. It’s sitting on the temple mount.

    Like

  12. Christine
    05/18/2012 at 9:19 AM

    Just goes to show me how much I have to learn. Makes me want more to remain humble & teachable so I can continue to learn from different perspectives. Thank you for sharing this.

    Like

  13. JohnB
    07/24/2012 at 12:51 AM

    Acts 15:1-21 “”After this I will return, and I will rebuild the dwelling of David, which has fallen; from its ruins I will rebuild it, and I will set it up”

    Could it be the “Tabernacle of David” on Mount Zion, is where the man of lawlessness/man of sin proclaims himself as the Savior .

    Like

  14. Anonymous
    07/24/2012 at 3:49 PM

    Here is something to chew on. One of the passages in scripture that may indicate that a third temple will not be built until Jesus comes is Zech. 6:12-14:

    Zech 6:12-13
    Then speak to him, saying, ‘Thus says the Lord of hosts, saying:

    “Behold, the Man whose name is the BRANCH!
    From His place He shall branch out,
    And He shall build the temple of the Lord;
    13 Yes, He shall build the temple of the Lord.
    He shall bear the glory,
    And shall sit and rule on His throne;
    So He shall be a priest on His throne,
    And the counsel of peace shall be between them both.”‘

    This is an obvious reference to the beginning of the Messianic age and the rule of Christ over the earth, as it refers to Him sitting on His throne. So, it looks like Jesus will build His temple along with “those who come from afar”. (vs. 15)

    Now, here is the kicker: We know the Great Trib lasts 1260 days. Let’s consider for a moment that this 1260 day period begins with the AofD in the spring near the date of a future Passover, and ends on Yom Kippur (Day of Judgment) 3 1/2 years later. The other number Daniel mentions (besides 1290, which I haven’t pondered much) is 1335: “How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1335 days”. This is another 75 days beyond Yom Kippur. Every year on the Jewish Feast day calendar, Hanukkah, or the Feast of Dedication, always comes exactly 75 days after Yom Kippur. As you all may know, the Feast of Dedication celebrates the cleansing and re-dedication of the Temple after the desecration by Antiochus in 165 B.C. We know from John 10:22 that Jesus observed this feast day. As every feast day is a foreshadowing of the future, does Hanukkah foreshadow a future glorious dedication of the Temple of Messiah as He begins His earthly reign? We will truly be blessed, as Daniel said, if we are participating in that great celebration.

    AtHisFeet

    Like

    • Anonymous
      08/10/2012 at 8:43 AM

      Great post! ICA you have a very compelling Perspective on the Antichrist coming out of Islam. I recently read Jack Smith’s book “Islam: The cloak of the Antichrist”, also presents a very compelling view, different from Joel Richardson’s. Though they differ in the details, they both make an amazing case for an Islamic Antichrist. Personally, I think Jack Smith makes the better case.

      Anyway, this post and comments on this post have been outstanding. Of course nobody has it all right right now, but It seems that more is being revealed as the time approaches. God bless and stay watchful.

      Like

    • 06/14/2014 at 12:49 AM

      Temple comes down from heaven. It is supernatural l believe.

      Like

  15. AtHisFeet
    09/02/2012 at 6:51 PM

    Hey – ICA, Kurt, Willard, anyone else interested. I’d love to get your take on this video. This is, once again, from a “Hebrew Roots” ministry, so take that into account. This is the only video I’ve watched from them and I am primarily interested in your thoughts regarding their take on the tetrad first introduced to us by Mark Biltz, and the other events they include in their timeline.

    ICA – these guys also discovered the connection between Hanukkah and the 1335 days (I knew more folks had to have caught that one). Plus they also make some intriguing connections to both Purim and Ramadan 2013. Without a doubt – their theory will definitely stand or fall by early 2013.

    It goes pretty slow – the first 15 minutes or so you can fast forward b/c it’s nothing we haven’t heard before. He gets into the meat of it after that. Just another take on all of these signs in the heavens to chew on.

    AHF

    Like

    • jac
      08/16/2014 at 11:40 AM

      this video is now listed as “private”. can you provide the background on this video or some other searchable parameters? thx

      Like

  16. ICA
    09/02/2012 at 6:51 PM

    AHF, very good video. It is probably one of the best explanations of the 1260, 1290 and 1335 days as any I’ve heard. I’ll be taking the time to review the other parts in the series. We don’t have much longer to go do discover whether or not their timeline begins to pan out. Thank you for sharing.

    Like

  17. Chris Popov
    09/02/2012 at 8:34 PM

    Hey guys. Just wanted to post another site I have learned some interesting things regarding scripture and the future events we will likely see soon. There is some good info and perspective relating islam and the beast kingdom. Just wanted to put this out there. Thanks for those who post and the person responsible for this site. Here is the link.

    http://www.thewatchmanstime.com/

    In Christ,

    Chris Popov

    Like

    • ICA
      09/02/2012 at 9:13 PM

      Thank you for the link Chris, I will check it out some time.

      Like

    • iamnotashamedofthegospelofchrist
      09/02/2012 at 9:29 PM

      Thanks Chris, just checked out the Watchman’s Time, Great site!

      Like

  18. 09/02/2012 at 8:45 PM

    Watched it. Very compelling, especially concerning the blood moons, the total solar eclipses 1 year apart on the first days of consecutive religious years, and the 1260 falling the day after the end of winter and the day before a Sabbath. To me, the 1290, 1335 and 2300 were more tenuous. Subtracting 10 days since we’re in Heaven and starting the 1335 at the beginning of the 1260 rather than the 1290 were a stretch for me. At this point I see the “days” as years, but I’m always open to changing my mind. Hold your understanding loosely.

    There was no discussion of WHAT the Abomination of Desolation will be. I would like to hear more from them on what they think that is. Maybe that’s in the first three videos. ICA, your assignment is to watch them for us (probably 3 more hours of sitting in front of a computer) and letting us know! (Ha!) I think the AoD started long ago as I’ve written on Joel’s Trumpet forum.

    I have been saying for a while that I think Yeshua’s return will be on a Day of Trumpets, and I could see us going to Heaven for 10 days, or perhaps 7 full days, since the DoT is a two day feast on Tishrei 1 & 2 and the Day of Atonement is Tishrei 10 (the 7 day Hebrew wedding celebration). However, as ICA has ably pointed out, ORGE wrath only happens during the 7th bowl, not the first six.

    This Jim Staley group (for that is who put out this video) baffles me. They seem fully committed to scripture, yet they can’t say God is Triune, and yet they seem to ascribe “more than humanness” to Yeshua, and what about the HS? They kept inserting comments about following the Torah, and they mean literally, not as in “love is the fulfillment of the law”. Their boast, practically said out loud, is “we keep the Torah, and so God revealed this to us” per Dan 12:4 and 10.

    Certainly we need to keep watching and as ICA says, we will know soon enough. One question is, will they say the AoD occurred on March 21, 2013 (I think that was their date) even if nothing significant or apparent happens in order to maintain belief in their timeline? Will they take a small event that occurs on that date and seize on it? What will their actions be as Sept 2016 approaches? Will they stand out on a mountaintop awaiting Christ’s return as the Millerites did? Will they start an even more splinter-y group as the SDAs (also big on the Law) did when Jesus didn’t return in 1844?

    Not trying to be a scoffer or cynic. I think they have made a strong case, its just that the source concerns me.

    Like

  19. ICA
    09/02/2012 at 9:03 PM

    I watched Part 2 on the Confirmation of the Covenant. Without going into more specific detail, they also do not believe in a 7-year tribulation and their overall message is similar to the thrust of my article above regarding the nature of the Temple as being the Church and an (Islamic) Antichrist causing the sacrifice and oblation (offering) to cease by doing everything possible to force the Church to cease from worshipping Yeshua. I don’t necessarily see everything the same way they do in every respect, but their/his teaching style is very straight forward and openly acknowledges it could be mistaken in some areas, leaving it up to the viewer to “test all things”. From what I have seen so far, I would recommend the teaching series for anyone interested. In the end, “test all things” or, if some prefer, “taste all things” in order to keep the meat, and spit out the bones …

    Like

  20. iamnotashamedofthegospelofchrist
    09/02/2012 at 9:22 PM

    I watched it before, but just watched again, I too agree with most of what they say, and will have to research the rest. I do believe that given all the signs we’re experiencing, we’re into or at the beginning of the 1260 days. I know Jesus returns with the last Trump. Now whether this is the feast of trumpets or the last trumpet John speaks of in Revelation I’m not sure, I need more time to research and pray for guidance. But they made a very good point. They said at the least this should wake us all up to what’s going on and what’s coming.

    Like

  21. Willard
    09/02/2012 at 11:05 PM

    It was a very good video and will watch it again and like we have said TEST ALL THINGS – I agree with Kurt that some near future FoT we can expect to see Christ desend from heaven – The tetrads I believe will certainly be a sign to watch for –

    Something else he connected for me was the 70 weeks with the Jubilees which I have for a long time looked at as a firm time line that also points to 2015 – 2017 – Dan 12: 7 which points to 3500 years from either the exodus or the entering of the land – I am thinking that it began when they crossed the Red Sea because many times the Jews are reminded not to forget the passover and this great event of leaving Egypt and passing through the waters of the Red Sea and receiving of the law on Mt Sinai

    One thing I have seen is that he said Hannuka was on Nov 23 – 2016 if I recall but when I looked at my 2016 Hebrew calendar Hannuka falls on Christmas Day Dec 25th not Nov 23 ??

    I do agree that Purim may be an important start date for something like the A/C sowing himself as Gods is never referred to in the book of Esther (maybe why)

    2015 and 2016 are definetly on the radar screen for me as a something to keep watch for – From Nov 29th 1947 from the UN Decree 181 allowing Israel a home land to Nov 26th 2016 the last day of the FoT is exactly 70 biblical years – all that I am saying is that there are many, many arrows pointing to the next 4 years or so being very important propheticaly

    I am looking upward

    Like

  22. 09/03/2012 at 1:53 AM

    Here’s 119 Ministries’ ‘End Times’ chart: http://q.b5z.net/i/u/10105283/f/DU_Chart.pdf

    They see us being in the 5th Seal too, as I do (and I believe ICA), with the Trumpets occurring during the “great trib” (Mar 21, 2013 – Sept 1, 2016) and the Bowls during the 10 days between the FoT and Yom Kippur. The problem is that if they view the S-T-Bs being consecutive, or at least Bowls within Trumpet 7; Trumpets within Seal 7, then they have Trumpet 1 occurring during Seal 5, a “no-no”, unless you subscribe to a lateral or co-occurring model.

    I think I’m going to have to watch their first 3 videos because they claim that common Hebrew calendar is not the “correct” Hebrew calendar. Of course.

    Like

    • iamnotashamedofthegospelofchrist
      09/03/2012 at 8:43 AM

      I’m sorry, I’m not as eloquent as I’d like to be, and I’m not very good at siting references or my research, as most comes from prayer and the Holy Spirit. Although, I believe that the seals and the trumpets run concurrent. I believe we are at the 5th, seal and 5th trumpet. I believe that all the earth changes we’ve been seeing recently are a prelude to the 6th seal, and the middle east turmoil is a prelude to the 6th trumpet, I agree with Irvine Baxter that the 6th trumpet is world war 3, that begins God’s wrath or the bowls. As I’ve said before, all have alot right, but we just won’t know until it happens, but we do know the season’s and we can discern what’s coming. I believe that Daniel’s abomination is speaking of the building of the alaqsa mosque. I believe that the beast of revelation and the 4th beast that Daniel saw and the feet of the statue are a revived Islamic caliphate,mixed with democracy. I believe that once the 6th seal, and 6th trumpet begin (unless shortened) we have only 3 1/2 years. I don’t believe that there will be a second chance for those left behind, I think they will be judged.As John see’s the door to the throne closing and noone allowed to enter. I’m praying that everyone finds their way to Christ soon, because I too am looking up. Jesus is coming and soooon. Praying for knowledge, wisdom and guidance. Thanks to all of you for your wonderful insight, and guidance.

      Like

      • 09/03/2012 at 11:22 AM

        Yes, we hold very similar views. I don’t know if there is a literal 3.5 year period or not; I can see the merits of the 1260 being either literal days or symbolic of years. I wouldn’t want to tell anyone they have a ‘second chance’ if they miss the rapture, but on the other hand, as a pre-Millennialist believing that natural humans will populate the Earth during Yeshua’s literal, physical reign, I conclude that many will repent after the rapture and prior to the separation of sheep and goats. The theory I have held for a while is that this occurs between Yom Teruah (trumpets) and Yom Kippur (Atonement), the ‘days of awe’. We need to be prepared at all times to see the Lord (who knows when we will die?), but especially around each YT. We have one coming soon – Sept 17.

        Like

  23. 09/03/2012 at 11:53 AM

    I watched videos 1-3 in the ‘End of Days’ series from 119 Ministries. They sprinkle A LOT of leaven of law-keeping throughout them. Their beliefs about the centrality of the Law in our relationship with God is starkly contrasting with my reading of scripture, and so even though many of their particular views of the End Times are similar to mine it colors my objectiveness of what they are saying. But there was a particularly egregious statement that I want to quote. The narrator said in video 3:

    “It will only be those who have their heart set on walking according to His Law that will be divinely protected in these end times”

    “Divinely protected” in their parlance is to be raptured to the heavenly temple during the bowls of wrath being poured out between the Feast of Trumpets and the Day of Atonement. So, its not just Christians who will be raptured, but the particular Christians that keep the Law.

    Furthermore, in reading their statement of beliefs found here, they will NOT say Yeshua is God, fully co-Equal with the Father and the Spirit. On the contrary, their first few beliefs are the following (I have highlighted a few phrases for emphasis):

    – God is the Word and He is One
    – God (Yahweh) created all things by the Word and all creation is subject to the Word.
    – In the garden everything was good until man violated an instruction of Yahweh and thus sin entered the world.
    – Sin is defined as breaking the law (instructions) of God.
    – All Scripture (Word) is instructions in righteousness.
    – All Scripture (Word) is still true and nothing has been abolished.
    – God’s law (Torah) is simply His instructions for all men.
    – Sin infected and affected all of creation, in the sense that all of creation was introduced to the curse. That curse from sin is the punishment of death. This is also taught by Paul as the law of sin and death, the same law that believers are no longer under through grace by faith.
    – Yeshua (Jesus) arrived as the Word made flesh, and perfectly practiced Yahweh’s instructions (Torah).
    – We believe that Yeshua was sent from the Father, and practiced the Word of God perfectly, thus being the Son of God, and same image or reflection of the Father.

    You can click on the link to read through the rest of them, but no where do they say, explicitly or implicitly:

    1. Jesus is God
    2. The Holy Spirit is God
    3. God is a Triune being

    They do say that “Salvation is by grace alone through faith”, which is different from “Salvation is by grace alone through faith ALONE”, which is the reform credo to which you likely subscribe and which scripture clearly teaches. And beyond that, their teachings clearly belie their belief in salvation by faith, no matter how much they talk about Yeshua meaning “Yahweh is Salvation.”

    So they make both of the essential mistakes of a cult, Christian or non-Christian, namely:

    1. Jesus is not God
    2. Salvation is by works

    The last point I want to make is subtle, but important:

    The ‘Hebrew Roots’ movement is NOT synonymous with ‘Messianic Judaism’. For the most part Messianic Jews believe that we are not required to keep the law, although they practice some of it or much of it as a means of worship, remembrance, tradition, for cultural purposes, etc. It is an aid to faith, not an essential of faith. And furthermore they fully subscribe to the Tri-unity of God and the divinity of Jesus. ‘Hebrew Roots’, which 119 Ministries self-identifies with, is as I described above.

    Be very cautious reading or watching anything by them. I’m afraid there is more than bones to spit out. The poison of relationship with God via lawkeeping, which is slavery (read Galatians again), is liberally distributed throughout their materials.

    Like

    • iamnotashamedofthegospelofchrist
      09/03/2012 at 2:09 PM

      Yes, I knew there was something sticking in my craw about this, but couldn’t put my finger on it untill now. Thanks Kurt. I did a bible study a few month’s back with a church that said that the only Christians going to heaven were those who followed the law. Among many things they said Saturday worshippers were only Christians who qualified, and they too did not believe Jesus was God. I have to agree to caution about following teachings as this, your right Paul teaches extensively on this. Great analysis.

      Like

  24. ICA
    09/03/2012 at 12:01 PM

    Yes I noticed that as well. A lot of bones, so one will need to take the time to separate it from what could be potentially good meat.

    Like

  25. AtHisFeet
    09/03/2012 at 2:41 PM

    I heard/read the same things, Kurt, and it was obviously troubling. This is why I only recommended the one video and, specifically, their timeline- which I still think is worthy of consideration, with the understanding that their teachings regarding law-keeping are in error.

    Even within the “Hebrew Roots” movement, there is a variety of teachings regarding the nature of God, the deity of Christ, etc. I was listening to Mark Biltz teaching a series on seeing the feast days in Revelation, and he made a comment about a speaker coming to their congregation who would be sharing all about how the OT proves the deity of Christ – so that was good to hear.

    It is frustrating because as I study the topic of the end-times, when I come across a teaching which syncs pretty well with my own understanding of the eschaton, more often than not, they are either Messianic or Hebrew Roots. And so, I agree that there is usually a lot of bones to spit out, but also have to appreciate that having a deeper understanding of the law of Moses regarding feast days, the Hebrew Calendar, times and seasons, etc. has certainly done a lot in the last few years to bring about a quantum leap in our ability to understand the signs of the times. I do believe the Holy Spirit has been revealing these truths to men’s hearts everywhere because of the lateness of the hour.

    AHF

    Like

    • 09/03/2012 at 5:33 PM

      I appreciate you sharing the video with us, I don’t blame you at all, of course, for any aberrant teaching of someone else. Its just that there are only a few critical doctrines for Christians, and that’s two of them!! Mark Biltz is Messianic and orthodox in his beliefs. Most Messianic are. I haven’t found any ‘Hebrew Roots’ yet that ascribe to the Tri-unity of God. I share the same frustration you do that they seem to find some amazing stuff, yet miss some of the most obvious, like Christ is the end of the law to those who believe. They want to argue about what that means; its rather plain to me.

      I go to an alive church that is actively working to win people to the faith, grow people in Christ, etc., but a lot of the teaching is shallow. You really have to get into a small group to dig further into the meat. Sometimes from the pulpit we will hear verse by verse on a particular book, which is great. That’s the style I really like.

      Like

  26. Willard
    09/03/2012 at 11:04 PM

    I have tried to connect with 119s calendar with no success – one should know if his calendar makes any sense simply from the moon phases??

    Like

    • iamnotashamedofthegospelofchrist
      09/04/2012 at 9:29 AM

      I do appreciate links to prophecy. I usually learn something I missed from them. But I’m either missing something very big, or I’m just not understanding. Jesus gave us many signs to watch for. The signs in the sun, moon and stars were just one piece of the puzzle, not the key. And it looks to me like the chart 119 presents for the trumpets is based soley on the moon phases. I have learned the importance of the old testament, the torah. But I can’t help but believe that there is more importance in following Jesus’s words in the new testament, and esp. Revelations. Since this book is the revelation of Jesus Christ. I am grateful for the insight into Jewish festivals and customs, as God say’s he will make known the end from the beginning, and I do believe all this has indeed helped to bring God’s children together. But I’m leary of putting Jesus’s word’s 2nd to anything. And it seem’s Daniel is concentrating on Beasts, Governments and Abominations to watch for. Again, I’m just slightly confused and welcome any insight. Thanks again for bringing this.

      Like

  27. Willard
    11/28/2012 at 4:37 PM

    J’lem to rebuild iconic synagogue destroyed in 1948 an Anonymous donor donates money to rebuild Tifereth Israel, located near Western Wall.

    http://www.jpost.com/NationalNews/Article.aspx?id=293791

    Like

  28. 01/25/2013 at 2:33 AM

    Excellent post and comments! I’ve considered some of these things myself and had concluded a while back that a literal Jewish Temple was not nessisary for the fulfillment of prophecy. It makes so much more sense in light of current events for there actually to NOT be a rebuilt temple. I personally think the Dome of the Rock is the AoD.

    Like

  29. 04/22/2013 at 1:51 PM

    I don’t think you discussed the issue of the definite article on THE temple of God. When Paul introduces the church or individual believer as “temple” he does not use the article (the article can appear later, as anaphoric). The church or individual is introduced as A temple. A real building is the obvious meaning of THE temple, and Daniel connects it with removal of the daily sacrifice

    Like

  30. 03/09/2014 at 10:32 PM

    Prophecy is multilayers with multiple meanings and fulfillments. I believe the Beast is the flesh that sets itself up in the Temple (our bodies) and the only way to defeat the Beast (overcome) is to die, to be crucified with Christ and reckon ourselves dead to sin. I also believe the Beast is a literal person that will appear in a literal temple during the Tribulation. The only way to overcome the Beast is to die, to love not our lives unto death.

    Like

  31. Silah
    03/22/2014 at 9:49 PM

    ‘Jesus’ is a 4 times removed translation of the name Yeshua. Yeshua came to uphold the Torah and to admonish those who add or take away from the Word- meaning the Torah is still relevant. Yet, in our time, we are taught that ‘Jesus’ did away with the Law. Then we are warned of a ‘man of lawlessness’ who sets himself up in the temple (the hearts of the believers) causing an abomination of desolation (a quenching of the Spirit of Truth). It seems in the spiritual sense that allowing this ‘false Yeshua’ a place in your heart, causing you to live in opposition to the Torah, would be a HUGE deception that he adamantly warned against.

    Like

  32. 06/14/2014 at 12:24 AM

    Outstanding educational insight into the battle for souls, a most informative read and tutorial.

    Consider that “the Kingdom that was and is not (at 33AD) and will come” is the re-emergence of the Egyptian Kingdom. Notice all the Egyptian symbols everywhere in the world, lotus, rising phoenix (satan), pyramids, eye, etc.

    The God of the Bible brought down that Kingdom with plagues and will do so again in the great tribulation and cup of His wrath.

    Like

  33. 07/21/2014 at 11:58 PM

    At this time it seems like BlogEngine is the preferred blogging platform out there right now.
    (from what I’ve read) Is that what you’re using on your blog?

    Like

  34. Anonymous
    07/30/2014 at 5:58 PM

    Just wondering if anyone has considered Islam the Beast and Rome the Harlot? The scriptures say the the beast overthrows the Harlot. In some of my research I have found that Islam and Catholicism seem to be very closely related in symbolism and some beliefs. Some ministries have documented that the religion of Islam was created by Catholicism. Any thoughts?

    Like

  35. Liz
    07/30/2014 at 6:00 PM

    Just wondering if anyone has considered Islam the Beast and Rome the Harlot? The scriptures say the the beast overthrows the Harlot. In some of my research I have found that Islam and Catholicism seem to be very closely related in symbolism and some beliefs. Some ministries have documented that the religion of Islam was created by Catholicism. Any thoughts?

    Like

  36. 08/18/2014 at 12:29 AM

    There is evidence that the early Church (i.e. after the resurrection of Christ and during the time of the Apostles) built holy temples. I believe that the scripture of 2 Thessalonians 2:4 was fulfilled around 325 A.D. when the pagan emperor Constantine destroyed the Christian Church organized by Christ and His Apostles, and replaced it with paganism under the guise of the “Nicene Creed”, using Christian terms, although their definitions having been corrupted. To entice pagans to join this abomination they began the worship of Mary, taking it directly from the pagans that worshiped the goddess Diana. Switching from Diana to Mary was a natural. Also created was the notion of an infallible “Pope”, which is non-scriptural but answers to the prediction through his “infallibility” that he “as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God”, obviously having taken over the original Church’s temples and converting some of them into cathedrals. There you have it: the apostasy prophesied by the Apostles happened and the man of sin, Pope, entered the holy temples and defiled them by claiming himself infallible, i.e. as God.

    Like

    • Anonymous
      08/20/2014 at 6:14 PM

      IMHO the crux of this article is about shedding light on the fact that the Temple is not a building it’s a body of believers or the spirit of an individual believer. Naós is the Greek word for Temple as a body of believers. Not a building. So the preterus view involves a building as does what a pope may stand in. Also the pope standing in the Vatican or a Catholic Church or amongst Catholics can not fit 2 Thess 2:4 cause Catholics can not make of the Temple of God cause they aren’t believers. Naòs is the sanctuary of the Holy Spirit inside us. Catholics do not share in it.
      I don’t see stand how the AC will stand in the midst of believers declaring himself God. Catholics are not believers. Although I can see the pope as AC, or more likely the false prophet.
      Understanding the 2 Thess 2:4 “Temple of God” is not a rebuilt Jewish Temple is critical to proper eschatology. Scoring off the Darby/ Scofield/ LeHaye/ Lindsey system we have been instilled with.
      This false pre-trib system was designed to keep us from properly understanding that the church will be
      here when the AC arrives. Those waiting for the rapture will not recognize him, and may fall for his incredible delusions and lies.

      Like

    • 08/21/2014 at 7:50 AM

      Anonymous seems to be correct. The Pope may claim to be “God on earth,” but he doesn’t sit in the Temple, i.e. the Body of Christ. He sits in a false unbelieving body. The Man of Sin also appears to be a single person, not a series of a hundred or so popes. Even within the apostate ecumenical movement, he is still outside the body of believers.
      Also, “that Day” will not come until he is revealed. The papacy came into being 1500 years ago. I can’t see how there would be that much the between the revealing of the Antichrist and the Day of the Lord. From the text, it appears “the Day” occurs shortly after “the
      revealing.”
      John is told to measure the Temple and the Altar. This must be the Altar of Incense in the holy Place, since the Brazen Altar is the the Outer Court which is not to be measured.
      In typology the Temple is symbolic of the Body of Christ, with the Outer Court symbolizing the body, the Holy Place the soul, the Most Holy Place the spirit. The priestly tribe of Levi ministered in the Outer Court, Aaron’s sons ministered in the Holy Place, and Aaron alone entered the most holy place. Since we are “a kingdom of priests,” each of these represent greater and greater intimacy with God. There are some who remain in the Outer Court, accepting the Sacrifice and Cleansing, never moving on the fellowship, never becoming Light and Bread for the world, and never moving through the Veil into the very presence of God. Could it be that these who make up the “Court” of the spiritual Temple are those who “fall away” and are “given to the Gentiles” to be “trampled” for 42 months? Is it the role of the Two Witnesses to bring these back to repentance (symbolized by sackcloth)?
      Because I believe prophecy is multilayered, with multiple fulfilments, I would think, though, that somehow the Temple is both literal and figurative, already fulfilled and so to be fulfilled.

      Like

  37. 08/28/2015 at 1:28 PM

    I would certainly agree that the temple is the Church according to scripture. Things that are given to Israel or that happen to Israel in the physical are replayed in the Church spiritually. (although the physical things happen like the rapture). But the places given to Israel for certain sacrifices and worship include temples. But Jesus Himself said that worship would no longer be in a particular place but in Spirit and truth. So as individual believers, those of the Household or temple of God (the church) go their day to day cross bearing lives they are worshiping God. But we read of an apostate church and a revealing of the son of perdition (man of sin) coming before the Lords return. He would be working to oppose God and His people. Somehow He will sit as God in the temple. 2Thes2:4.
    In Daniel 7; 8 We read of the little horn making ware against the saints and overcoming them. I believe a period of 1260 is given. There is also a set number of saints that will have to die Rev 6:9-11. see also Rev 7, Rev 20. They will be given white robes. The wife has made herself ready Rev 19:6-8.

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