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What Is The War Of Gog-Magog?

05/29/2013 Leave a comment Go to comments

By ICA

Ezekiel 38:1-3a, “And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him, And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog …”

When it comes to the war described by the Prophet Ezekiel in the 38th and 39th chapters of his book — often referred to as the War of Gog-Magog — there often seems to be a circle of Bible prophecy teachers that keep repeating the same general theories over and over in an effort to impose a specific preconceived idea or timeline into the battle. Instead of allowing the full counsel of Scripture to provide the timing of this war for us, Gog-Magog is characterized as a war that will happen either just before or immediately after the start of “Daniel’s 70th week”. All too often, students of Biblical eschatology who study the positions of a particular author or teacher may then refer to a couple of others who say essentially the same thing for “inquisitive” reinforcement. These students are subsequently conditioned to conclude that these authors and teachers must be correct because they have “all” come at the same conclusion from the text, one that is further strengthened in the student’s mind when the very same teachers also echo similar rebuttals outlining why any opposing position cannot be correct. But as the Bereans in the Book of Acts were called noble because they searched the Scriptures daily to see if what they were being taught was so, we too also need to mimic the Berean example.

Instead of repeating the common misconception outlined above, authors and teachers such as Joel Richardson (read his position here) and Dave Hunt & T. A. McMahon from The Berean Call radio ministry (listen to a segment from their radio program discussing Ezekiel 38 and 39 here) have presented serious, if not devastating, challenges to the more “mainstream” position of Evangelical Christians by offering compelling reasons why Ezekiel’s Gog-Magog war does not describe a “pre-Armageddon” battle. Upon a much closer and careful examination of Ezekiel’s text, it becomes increasingly clear that we can ascertain — simply by comparing Scripture with Scripture — why Gog-Magog is a battle that will, without a doubt, culminate in the war of all wars itself: Armageddon.

What Is Gog, And Who Is Gog?

To understand why, however, we first need to determine what Gog is, and who Gog is, from a Biblical perspective. Ezekiel refers to Gog as “the chief prince” of Meshech and Tubal three times (38:2, 38:3 and 39:1). The Hebrew word for chief is rosh, which also means the head (like the Jewish New Year “Rosh Hashanah“, which means “Head of the Year”), and the word for prince is nasiy which also means captain or leader. According to the text, Gog is a very important leading figure of some sort whom the Lord tells Ezekiel to prophecy against.

Another extremely significant clue regarding the identity of Gog is given for us again a few verses later. In Ezekiel 38:17, God identifies Gog as the one whom the prophets foretold that the Lord would bring up against Israel in the last days to reveal Himself to the nations and to make His holy name known in the midst of His people (cf 39:7). To drive home this point, here are a number of different translations of Ezekiel 38:17:

KJV: “Thus saith the Lord GOD; [Art] thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days [many] years that I would bring thee against them?”

NLT: “This is what the Sovereign LORD says: You are the one I was talking about long ago, when I announced through Israel’s prophets that in future days I would bring you against my people.”

DBY: “Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Art thou not he of whom I have spoken in old time through my servants the prophets of Israel, who prophesied in those days, for [many] years, that I would bring thee against them?”

LXX: “Thus saith the Lord God, to Gog; Thou art he concerning whom I spoke in former times, by the hand of my servants the prophets of Israel, in those days and years, that I would bring thee up against them.”

The Message: “A Message of God, the Master: Years ago when I spoke through my servants, the prophets of Israel, wasn’t it you I was talking about? Year after year they prophesied that I would bring you against them. And when the day comes, Gog, you will attack that land of Israel.”

CEV: “The LORD said to Gog: Long ago, I had my prophets warn the people of Israel that someday I would send an enemy to attack them. You, Gog, are that enemy, and that day is coming.”

NCV: “‘This is what the Lord God says: You are the one about whom I spoke in past days. I spoke through my servants, the prophets of Israel, who prophesied for many years that I would bring you against them.”

TNIV: “‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: You are the one I spoke of in former days by my servants the prophets of Israel. At that time they prophesied for years that I would bring you against them.”

We’ve already identified what Gog is, which is a very important leader. To determine who Gog is, what must not be lost here is the fact that all other prophets only spoke of one figure similarly elsewhere that would come up against Israel in the last days, and that figure is the one whom we would now identify as Antichrist. If the Lord refers to Gog as the one whom the prophets spoke of previously that would come up against Israel in the last days, which He does, then there is therefore only one possible conclusion that can be drawn: Gog is somehow referring directly to Antichrist.

Similarities Between The Battle of Gog-Magog and Armageddon

If Gog is in fact Antichrist, then we should be able to correlate events surrounding the battle of Gog-Magog with events surrounding the battle of Armageddon. Naturally, however, when two or more witnesses describe the same event, they will sometimes express certain aspects of the event differently, or emphasize and delineate specific details over others. And the same is true with Biblical prophets. When the sum of all details are considered, however, there are too many astounding similarities between the battle of Gog-Magog and the battle of Armageddon to ignore, and any “differences” that some try to point out between Gog-Magog and Armageddon are easily resolved once the whole of Scripture is compared hermeneutically using not just the book of Revelation, but Isaiah, Daniel, Joel and Zechariah as well. In a nutshell:

Notice the three last points emphasized above. Ezekiel 39:7 and 39:22 both say that God’s name will be known in the midst of Israel and that Israel will know their God from that day forward. The only way that Israel can know God is if they know their true Messiah. Galatians 5:4 makes it clear that those who simply try to be justified by the Law are estranged/separated from Christ (and therefore God), so if Israel is to truly know the Lord their God “from that day forward” they must recognize Jesus (Yeshua) as their Messiah (Ha-Mashiach). Contextually, Ezekiel 39:29 tells us that the Lord pours out His spirit upon the house of Israel and Zechariah 12:10 gives us the timing regarding when this will happen: After the Second Coming of Christ. Ezekiel 39:7 reinforces Zechariah’s timing by showing us that Christ is now physically present in Israel:

Ezekiel 39:29, “Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.”

Zechariah 12:10, “And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.”

Ezekiel 39:7, “So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not [let them] pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I [am] the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.”

If that weren’t enough, God Himself declares in Ezekiel 39:8, “Behold, it is come, and it is done … this [is] the day whereof I have spoken.” He has revealed Himself to Israel and to the nations. How can God say “It is done” when, according to the pop-eschatology position of many prophecy teachers today, it is not done until about seven years later at Armageddon? Moreover, if God had declared that He spoke of any “pre-Armageddon” battle before, where is it mentioned in Scripture? The only day in the eschaton that the Lord and the prophets spoke of previously is the Day of the Lord — Armageddon. The view that many of today’s teachers support, however, suggests that all of the Magog nations that Christ destroys — nations that the text tells us in no uncertain terms will know from that point forward that the God of Israel is God (Ezekiel 38:16, 23; 39:7, 21, 23) — suddenly and conveniently all develop a case of collective amnesia to yet again form another coalition in order to yet again gather against Jerusalem, only to be destroyed yet again by Christ a few short years later. Such a position is a highly tenuous, to say the least.

Of course, there’s even more that could be said, but for the sake of brevity I’ll refer to Dake’s Annotated Reference Bible, which is also a good reference for this particular topic as well. Although I do not agree with everything provided in many reference Bibles (nor should we), I will acknowledge that Dake’s Annotated Reference Bible does provide a well-researched analysis comparing the battle of Gog-Magog and the battle of Armageddon by listing the following fourteen proofs why Armageddon is referred to in Ezekiel 38 and 39:

  1. Not one statement in these two chapters (Ez: 38-39) mention a war in Israel before Armageddon [or after].
  2. The battle of Armageddon is the only war predicted by the prophets that could possibly be referred to in these chapters (Ezek. 38:17). Armageddon is mentioned many times by Isaiah, Jeremiah, Micah, and other prophets before the days of Ezekiel (Isa. 1:25-31; 3:25-26; 13:1-16; 24:21; 63:1-6; Jer. 25:30-33; 30:11,20-24; Joel 2-3; Oba. 1:15-21; Mic. 1:3-4; 2:12-13; 5:5-15; etc.).
  3. The destruction of Gog and his armies (Ezek. 38:18-23; 39:1-6,17-20) compares with similar statements about Armageddon in Joel 3; Zech. 14; Rev. 19:11-21.
  4. Gog will not fall upon the open field until Armageddon (Ezek. 39:3-5; Rev. 19:11-21).
  5. The great supper for the fowls and beasts will only be at Armageddon (Ezek. 39:4,17-20 with Mt. 24:27-28; Rev. 19:17-21).
  6. The presence of God (as pictured in Ezek. 38:18-21; 39:1-6,17-24) will not be until Armageddon (Isa. 63:1-6; Zech. 14:1-5; Rev. 19:11-21).
  7. The supernatural destruction of Gog and his armies (as described in Ezek. 38:21-23) will not be until Armageddon (Isa. 63:1-6; Joel 2-3; Zech. 14; Rev. 19:11-21).
  8. God will not magnify and sanctify Himself and set His glory among the heathen (as stated in Ezek. 38:23; 39:21-24) until He comes at the second coming of Christ — at Armageddon (Zech. 14:1-21; Mt. 24:29-31; Rev. 19:11-21).
  9. Gog will not bring the many armies of the nations into Israel to be destroyed until the time of the second coming of Christ, at Armageddon, as referred to in Ezek. 38:18-23; 39:1-7 and proved in Zech. 14:1-5; Rev. 16:13-16; 19:11-21.
  10. The great earthquake of Ezek. 38:20 will not take place until the seventh vial and the second coming (Zech. 14:1-5; Rev. 16:17-21; 19:11-21).
  11. God’s presence will not destroy Gog and his army until the second coming, at Armageddon (Ezek. 38:20; 39:2-7 with Zech. 14:1-5; Rev. 19:11-21).
  12. Gog and his army cannot be destroyed in a war in Israel before the second coming, at Armageddon, to fulfill Ezek. 38:18-23; 39:1-7,17-20, and then be destroyed again at Armageddon to fulfill Isa. 63; Joel 2-3; Zech. 14. We must therefore recognize all these passages as referring to the same destruction — at Armageddon (Rev. 19:11-21).
  13. The burial of Gog and all his armies destroyed in the fulfillment of Ezek. 38-39 will be at the second coming of Christ (Ezek. 39:11-16 with Dan. 7:11; 2Th. 2:8-12; Rev. 19:11-21).
  14. It is at the second coming of Christ that God’s glory will be set among the heathen and Israel will be completely gathered and blessed (Ezek. 39:21-29; Zech. 14; Mt. 24:29-31; Rom. 11:24-29; Rev. 19:11-21).

The Identity of Gog – An Alternative Explanation

Ezekiel 39:4, 11, “You shall fall upon the mountains of Israel, you and all your troops and the peoples who [are] with you; I will give you to birds of prey of every sort and [to] the beasts of the field to be devoured… I will give Gog a burial place there in Israel, the valley of those who pass by east of the sea; and it will obstruct travelers, because there they will bury Gog and all his multitude…”

If all of that wasn’t enough to chew on, here is one more item worthy of further consideration. Although Gog sounds like a person and is spoken of in personified terms as being given over to ravenous birds and animals (Ezekial 39:4) who will be buried in Israel (39:11), let us not ignore the possibility that Ezekiel may not be describing a man, but rather the leading spiritual entity behind the Antichrist or the political-religious system that exercises authority over this region, similar to how Daniel describes the spiritual forces exercising authority over Iran and Greece as “the prince of Persia (Iran)” and “the prince of Javan (Grecia)” in Daniel 10:20. Ezekiel calls Gog “the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal” in 38:2, 38:3 and 39:1, which is the region north of Israel in modern day Turkey. Incidentally, in Revelation 2:13 Jesus says that the region of modern day Turkey (which is where Gog is “the chief prince” of) is “where Satan’s throne is” and “where Satan dwells.” It is therefore conceivable that Gog could simply be referring to Satan himself, which would explain why we suddenly read of another Gog-Magog battle immediately after Satan is released following his 1,000 years of captivity in Revelation 20:7-8.

imagesThere is obviously much more going on behind the curtain of this physical world than meets the eye. Since the casting down of Satan is also described in physical terms by the prophet Isaiah whereby Satan is “brought down to the grave, to the depths of the pit” (Isaiah 14:15) even though Satan is non-corporeal, as is his being bound by “chains” and being thrown down into the abyss (Revelation 20:1-3), the “chief prince” being given over to the animals and buried in the land of Israel at the first battle of Gog-Magog could simply be referring to the physical destruction of the armies of the surrounding Islamic nations (cf. 38:5-6) that he brings against Israel through deceptive means. Knowing that Satan is also referred to elsewhere as the “prince of the power of the air” (Ephesians 2:2), the “prince of this world” (John 12:31) and the “prince of demons” (Matthew 12:24) who “deceives the whole world” (Revelation 12:9), to be called the “chief prince” who leads nations to wage war against Israel is entirely consistent with the titles and tasks of the adversary described elsewhere throughout the Biblical texts.

Furthermore, although we have generally understood Antichrist in terms of a man, we should not dismiss nor discount the possibility that Antichrist may not be a man per se at all, but rather the Islamic “system” itself that we see manifest today. Just as the Church (Ekklesia) is the Body of Christ, Satan’s counterfeit of the Church — the Ummah of Islam — would be the “Body of Antichrist” that is given its power and authority by Satan himself (cf Revelation 13:2-4). Although Antichrist could be a literal man who will soon be revealed, the “embodiment” of the religious-political-militant system of Islam (the multitude of a man, Mohammed) that is given its power by “the chief prince” or spiritual force who exercises authority over Meshech and Tubal may be what is truly in view here, even though it is often referred to anthropomorphically as a “man” in Scripture much like the Church (the multitude of the Lamb, Messiah) is referred to as “one new man” in Ephesians 2:15. Either way, Gog is Antichrist.

In Conclusion – One Battle, Different Perspectives

Without any doubt in my mind, the battle of Gog-Magog and the battle of Armageddon are essentially separate descriptions of the same event. More specifically, the Gog-Magog description as outlined by the prophet Ezekiel provides is a broader overview of a conflict that simply leads up to and ends at Armageddon, not simply “Armageddon” itself per se when the armies of the surrounding Islamic nations gather themselves in the “valley of decision” in a final effort to destroy Israel once and for all. It is a broader view of a conflict that comes to a definitive conclusion at Armageddon when Christ Himself destroys the surrounding armies directly, enemies who will have already been fighting against Israel and waging wars for quite some time — months, perhaps a few short years. Ezekiel 38-39 describes this extended campaign, providing us with a broader wide-angle view of a conflict that could last for a good portion of Antichrist’s persecution of Israel and her children, and coming to a climactic end with the Seventh Trumpet and the return of Yeshua Ha-Mashiach, Jesus Christ, in power and great glory, whose presence will be made known all throughout Israel. And the earth.

Revelation 6:15-17, “And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”

Originally Posted 3/16/2011, Revised 6/1/2013
Categories: Radical Islam, Theology and Eschatology, Wars and Rumors of War Tags: , , , , , , , , , ,
  1. Kurt Jorgensen
    03/17/2011 at 2:23 AM
    Reply

    Just went thru this: http://www.john3thirty.net/sharedfiles/neweschatology.ppt

    Very interesting. Of course I don’t agree with every point. I did find intriguing the idea that just as the 7th seal is the unfolding of the trumpets, so the 7th trumpet contains the bowls–an alternate historicist interpretation then might be that as Jesus returns to rapture his church, the bowls are poured out on the earth, as Armageddon unfolds.

    I don’t have a good notion of how to reconcile my view of the beast/little horn/AC being the Roman Empire cum Church in light of Rev 16:18-20. Any help is appreciated!

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    • ICA
      03/17/2011 at 9:09 PM
      Reply

      I believe that the trumpets will begin some time during the 5th seal and continue through to the opening of the 7th. I think that we may be somewhere in between the 4th and 5th seals. Moreover, it seems to me that the 7th seal, 7th trumpet and 7th vial all end right around the same time in the eschaton, so instead of being consecutive they are more concurrent. (As you know I view the trumpets and vials as essentially opposite sides of the same coin in that the trumpets are the cause and the vials are the effect which completes the trumpet causation).

      As for the question about Rev 16:18-20, this is the post-trib destruction of the Islamic armies that come up against Israel to battle against Christ (Islam teaches that many Muslim nations will be united under the Mahdi and will go up against Israel and fight against Israel and their Islamic version of “antichrist” called “al Dajjal” — but the Islamic religion has deceived them, and instead of fighting against “al Dajjal” they will be fighting against God — Christ Himself. When they come to this realization it will be too late). See Rev 6:12-17.

      Rev 7:1 – Rev “7:18” (8:1) is John witnessing the gathering of the elect that went through, and comes out of, the great tribulation. Rev 8:2 begins with John then describing God’s answer for the persecuted saints. Here John jumps back somewhere around the 5th seal. One reason for this is because in Rev 8:3-5 we read about the altar of God, the incense (prayers of the saints), and what happens to the earth in response to those prayers:

      Psalms 141:2, “Let my PRAYER be set before You as INCENSE…”

      Rev 6:9-11, “And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they [were], should be fulfilled.”

      Now compare with:

      Rev 8:3-5a, “And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer [it] with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, [which came] with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel’s hand. And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast [it] into the earth“.

      Keep in mind the Semitic style of Revelation, that John will give broad overviews and jump back to then focus on something that took place earlier. In Rev 8:3-5a we are given an overview of what happens when God answers the prayers of the saints who ask “How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?”, and their answer comes when “the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast [it] into the earth”. The end result of this judgment upon the earth is “voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.” (8:5b; Compare with Rev 6:12, 11:19, 16:18). John then jumps back yet again as it were to now describe what those judgments were, beginning with the first trumpet …

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      • Kurt J
        03/17/2011 at 11:59 PM
        Reply

        Back to your response… I wish you would at least watch the PPT linked to, because its pretty succinct and provides a nice overview of historicist thought. I gave it to you because it offered a nice counterpoint to your statement that “If the Lord refers to Gog as the one whom the prophets previously spoke of that would come up against Israel in the last days, there is only one conclusion that we can come to: Gog is another name for Antichrist”, which was rather unsupported, particularly given that you merely repeated Ez 38:17 from a bunch of different translations; I didn’t get the point; they basically all say that Gog is the one who will attack Israel in the future, and had been the long prophesied one. That doesn’t make him “Antichrist.”

        And so back to my problem–what to do about Rev 16:13-16, which makes “the beast”, the Roman Empire, and “the false prophet” (the other beast, the Roman Church) instigators of, vis-a-vis the unclean spirits like frogs coming out of their mouths, Armageddon, by deceiving the whole world. Because I do buy into the notion that it will be Islam that goes up against Israel, and the RC Church/European Union!!

        A strength, I think, and a sign of honesty, is recognizing when your “system” breaks down–where there are weaknesses. Have you encountered any of those with your views?

        Yes, in the end after reading your response, I understand much better why you think we are between the 4th and 5th Seals. You should add to this blog a section where you can post more detailed explanations/papers describing your eschatological and other beliefs. It could still have responses. That would be a better location for discussions like these. It could have a TOC or be topical, much as your news articles are sorted.

        Just as you point out the Semitic style of Rev, which I completely agree with, the same could be said about Chapter 7 in the historicist vein, that as an “Interlude” it describes what persecuted saints have undergone during the long tribulation under Antichrist, continuing to today. Certainly prayers such as 6:10 have been going up from the days of the early church

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        • ICA
          03/18/2011 at 1:47 PM
          Reply

          I’ll have to install Open Office since I don’t use MS Office at home to view PPTs. Briefly, however, the historicist position is on the right track, just the wrong lane imo. Instead of focusing on Roman Catholicism I think the real focus needs to be on Radical Islam. Antichrist is both “against” and “in place of”, to which The Papacy and Roman Catholicism is neither, despite having doctrinal issues (and even many Protestant denomination have doctrinal issues). Radical Islam, however, is both against Christ and seeks to place itself in place of Christ by claiming that salvation is only found in Islam by acknowledging the ‘prophet’ Mohammed and submission to Allah. But I’ll look at the PPT this weekend.

          I don’t think I’ve come across any weaknesses with the ‘eastern paradigm’, at least nowhere near the weaknesses that I can see with the historicist’s ‘western paradigm’.

          I’ll be posting more writings on the blog sharing my thoughts on a few other subjects such as the nature of the Church according to Scripture, the Mark of the Beast, the “people of the prince to come”, the confirmation of the Covenant, the meaning of the 144000, and the scope of the Beast’s empire.

          As for Revelation 7, the one objection I would have about it being an ‘historicist interlude’ is simply because of the fact that John’s descriptions in Revelation 6 and 7 parallel perfectly Matthew 24. Yet even that could be another posting altogether. :)

          Update June 2013: All of the articles I alluded to above can now be found in the Articles: Theology and Eschatology page for those interested.

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  2. Kurt Jorgensen
    03/17/2011 at 3:28 PM
    Reply

    The beast on the prowl:

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  3. Willard Nernberg
    04/07/2011 at 11:03 PM
    Reply

    I agree as well that this war has to be the war of Armageddon. I cannot debate on the level the two of you are on but just to get a point in I think we may have some idea when this war will take place when in Ezk 39:4 it speaks that the troops would become food to all kinds of carrion or birds of prey birds and to the wild animals.

    Each year hundreds of millions of birds cross over Israel, migrating between their breeding grounds in Europe and Asia and their wintering quarters in the heart of Africa. In the spring the salt flats north of Eilat are humming with life. Tens of thousands of bird’s stop off to eat en route to Europe and Asia. Estimates are anywhere between 500 million to 1.5 billion birds fly north in spring from Africa to Europe and Asia, this figure represents 200 different species, this includes 34 types of BIRDS OF PREY.

    When the birds fly south to Africa in the fall they are relatively fresh from Europe and rarely stop over in Eilat. “But it is a different story in the spring, to reach here in the spring they have flown over 3,500 kilometres of desert. They are exhausted and hungry and the sea blithe vegetation on the salt flats north of Eilat offer them their first good meal in a long time. The bird preservation societies in Israel are planting sea blithe as coverage on garbage dumps and other waste areas in Israel to help feed these birds of prey during their spring migration. This is also increasing their numbers.

    Some birds, which regularly migrate over Eilat, are the booted eagle, raptor, rare Russian steppe eagle, lesser spotted eagle, snake eagle, imperial eagle, marsh harrier, osprey, black kite and honey buzzard, as well as large numbers of pelicans and storks. The buzzards of Israel are displaying affection for each other, in multiplying and also, the Israeli people have a rather strange affection for the buzzards, (have they received a message from God.) Israel’s ‘Spreading Wings’ program, is trying to resuscitate the vulture population. It has set up 20 feeding and nesting stations around the country
    Between one and two million raptors migrate through Eilat, Israel each spring. They arrive via south Sinai, Egypt, largely on a South West to North East course indicating that they have left Africa by crossing the Gulf of Suez, Egypt, at its southern end. Now that Israel is back, trees cover the land and extensive farming of all kinds provides food for the birds and wild animals once more. The vulture population at Gamla on the east side of the Sea of Galilee has continuously been increasing in recent years.

    By setting up nesting and feeding stations for vultures throughout Israel it is increasing the vulture population. Why does Israel have such an affinity for vultures an unclean bird? Maybe they understand or have received a message from the Prophetic Scriptures and assigned a very important function or future task to the fowls of the air who feast primarily on carrion, like vultures, after Jesus has slaughtered untold millions of the army of Magog.

    I think it is certainly worth noting when this main migration takes place, it is in the springtime. A check on the Internet and in the month of March Israel has the Eilat Bird Festival which corresponds to this spring migration. The month of March and April are the main months of this South North migration. There is a very interesting fact related to this spring time event. The celebration of Purim (Persia like Haman may see its waterloo) is typically in early to mid March (Migration) season. Purim, the Jewish celebration of the Jew defeating the Persian Haman in the book of Esther.

    I think this is significant and could be more than a coincidence, It may be God telling us ahead of time when he will again destroy the enemies of his people the Jew. Persia like Haman did will once again feel the wrath of God for its continuous anti Israel stance. It’s planned build up of nuclear weapons, its threat to eliminate Israel from the face of the earth and its supplying weapons to Hezbollah and Hamas.

    God is possibly giving us a hint as to the time of year this war will take place or when we could expect this war to take place. The defeat will possibly be on Purim in the spring of the year. There are so many dates and happenings in Israel’s history that fall on feast days or specific calendar days like the 9th of Av etc. The words of Ezekiel seem to confirm this season in the migration of the birds of prey feeding on the corpses of the defeated Russia and all of his hordes. But we will have to wait and see.

    For what will have been a once proud and strong military power of Russia, and its egotistic, anti Semantic, and braggart, ally Iran, and all of its hordes everything will come to a sad and bitter end with no one and nothing to save them. All that they will be able to do is strike out and kill each other.

    The Lord says they will fall in the open field, and that is where the vultures and other birds of prey will feed on them. The carnage, the smell of rotting flesh, the millions of birds eating and gorging on all this human flesh, the stench will simply be over powering, it will be a war zone like no other in history. Israel will be burying the corpses for seven months and burn the fuel of the enemy’s weapons for seven years. Magog and his hordes will have a burial place in the Valley of Harmon Gog (Hordes of God).

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  4. ICA
    04/08/2011 at 12:08 AM
    Reply

    Thanks Willard, interesting. One thing that would make them stop over in the fall, however, would be if their summer feeding was very poor due to drought or famine. And it seems like this is starting to plague Europe and elsewhere in increasing measure. This is what happened last year.

    “While Europe is by large considered as having adequate water resources, water scarcity and drought is an increasingly frequent and widespread phenomenon in the European Union.” (Link).

    I think that Gog-Magog will be a protracted war and could last as long as most of the 42-month duration of the Beast’s persecution — with the end of it culminating at Armageddon.

    Like

  5. Willard
    04/08/2011 at 12:52 PM
    Reply

    ICA you may be right because we know that the Spring Feasts have all been fulfilled and it is the Fall Feasts that we are waiting for – this Sept may be very interesting as it is Rosh Hashina – Yom Kippur – and the FoT and this is the month that the Palistenians plan to declare statehood – May we will Pslam 83 and Is 17 fulfilled – I have myself 99% convinced that 2011 is the beginning of the last seven years basing that on what is transpiring in the ME as we speak. There are a lot of voids and vacuums politically speaking that SOMEONE will have to fill – I lived in the Islamic world for many, many years and they are looking for their Caliph or Mahadi to unite them

    Like

  6. ICA
    04/08/2011 at 3:18 PM
    Reply

    Yep, the Fall Feasts is precisely why it would, as far as I see it, need to come to its completion during a Fall season to correspond with the Second Coming. As a side note, personally I don’t see anything in Scripture pointing to a last seven years the way that we’ve been taught regarding the 70th Week of Daniel (it has either been fulfilled already, or the first half only has been fulfilled. I lean towards the latter at this time due to the fact that the only time period mentioned in the eschaton specifically is a time, times and half a time — which corresponds with the 42 months, or 1260 days, of Revelation).

    Like

  7. Kurt J.
    05/08/2011 at 1:01 PM
    Reply

    “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.” Mt. 24:36, NASB

    This is an illustration of how the Hebrew month, and consequently the Hebrew year (on Rosh Hashanah) is determined: http://www.torahcalendar.com/MOON.asp?JDN=2455627&TDAY=1

    If you toggle (top left above horizon illustration) between the day before and the day after the “New Moon Day” you can see the various positions of the Moon relative to the just-set Sun.

    Of course, the oft-made point is that Jesus did not say ‘the month and year could not be known’, just the ‘day and hour.’ This Torah Calendar page quite graphically illustrates this point–in 1st Century knowledge and parlance, one would not know the exact date of the start of the new year until it was observed from the temple mount and the trumpet was blown.

    Next time you look up at the Moon and see it in its particular stage, remember these verses:

    “God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also.”

    “When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers,The moon and the stars, which You have ordained”

    “He made the moon for the seasons“

    Like

  8. REGINALD
    03/23/2012 at 11:50 PM
    Reply

    I find this post filled with confusing statements and out of context references

    It would take too long to go through it all verse by verse, but to give an example I will take this one statement out of the post and analyze it closely as it is an example of what is found throughout.

    “Both Gog and Antichrist take spoil, loot and plunder (Isa 10:5-7, Dan 11:24; Ezekiel 38:10-13)”

    Let’s look at these three scriptures closely.

    1. Isa 10:5-7

    First of all it is an enormous stretch to make this scripture a description of the anti-christ or to make it anything to do with the anti-christ. The historical context of this prophecy is about the Assyrian hordes who trampled the Northern Kingdom, the House of Israel and deported them cruelly out of the Land and brought in captives from elsewhere to inhabit the area of Samaria. It explains that God will consider them the rod of His anger against tha apostate Israelites, but afterward he would judge them for their wickedness.

    The whole prophecy from the verse you quoted above follows.

    Isaiah 10:5-19
    New King James Version (NKJV)

    5 “Woe to Assyria, the rod of My anger
    And the staff in whose hand is My indignation.
    6 I will send him against an ungodly nation,
    And against the people of My wrath
    I will give him charge,
    To seize the spoil, to take the prey,
    And to tread them down like the mire of the streets.
    7 Yet he does not mean so,
    Nor does his heart think so;
    But it is in his heart to destroy,
    And cut off not a few nations.
    8 For he says,
    ‘Are not my princes altogether kings?
    9 Is not Calno like Carchemish?
    Is not Hamath like Arpad?
    Is not Samaria like Damascus?
    10 As my hand has found the kingdoms of the idols,
    Whose carved images excelled those of Jerusalem and Samaria,
    11 As I have done to Samaria and her idols,
    Shall I not do also to Jerusalem and her idols?’”
    12 Therefore it shall come to pass, when the Lord has performed all His work on Mount Zion and on Jerusalem, that He will say, “I will punish the fruit of the arrogant heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his haughty looks.”

    13 For he says:

    “By the strength of my hand I have done it,
    And by my wisdom, for I am prudent;
    Also I have removed the boundaries of the people,
    And have robbed their treasuries;
    So I have put down the inhabitants like a valiant man.
    14 My hand has found like a nest the riches of the people,
    And as one gathers eggs that are left,
    I have gathered all the earth;
    And there was no one who moved his wing,
    Nor opened his mouth with even a peep.”

    15 Shall the ax boast itself against him who chops with it?
    Or shall the saw exalt itself against him who saws with it?
    As if a rod could wield itself against those who lift it up,
    Or as if a staff could lift up, as if it were not wood!
    16 Therefore the Lord, the Lord of hosts,
    Will send leanness among his fat ones;
    And under his glory
    He will kindle a burning
    Like the burning of a fire.
    17 So the Light of Israel will be for a fire,
    And his Holy One for a flame;
    It will burn and devour
    His thorns and his briers in one day.
    18 And it will consume the glory of his forest and of his fruitful field,
    Both soul and body;
    And they will be as when a sick man wastes away.
    19 Then the rest of the trees of his forest
    Will be so few in number
    That a child may write them.

    History declares the Assyrians were later utterly decimated. This passage of prophecy has been already fulfilled.

    2. Dan 11:24

    Daniel 11:24
    New King James Version (NKJV)

    24 He shall enter peaceably, even into the richest places of the province; and he shall do what his fathers have not done, nor his forefathers: he shall disperse among them the plunder, spoil, and riches; and he shall devise his plans against the strongholds, but only for a time.

    On the surface, this would seem to be okay. But when we see the context that this verse is taken from it becomes untenable.

    I wont post the whole of Daniel Chapter 11 for brevity’s sake. Chapter 11 is a prophetic account of what is now history beginning with the time of Daniel under the reign of Darius the Mede right through to the resurrection in Chapter 12.

    The time of the end is mentioned in verse 40 and gives details of the interaction between the king of the South and the king of the North. The abomination of desolation which happened in 70AD is mentioned several verses previously in verse 31. After verse 31 there is mention of an unspecified period of time described in verses 33-35 which we can now identify as the ‘church age’, aka the ‘time of the Gentiles’. (It is assumed these two are concurrent)

    But the verse used in this article is way back in time. It is speaking of things and events in another time period for this prophecy from beginning to end is sequential. Whoever is being spoken of in verse 24 of Chapter 11 can not be about anybody in the end time for the chapter itself identifies the end time much later on.

    3. Ezekiel 38:10-13

    Ezekiel 38:10-13
    New King James Version (NKJV)

    10 ‘Thus says the Lord God: “On that day it shall come to pass that thoughts will arise in your mind, and you will make an evil plan: 11 You will say, ‘I will go up against a land of unwalled villages; I will go to a peaceful people, who dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates’— 12 to take plunder and to take booty, to stretch out your hand against the waste places that are again inhabited, and against a people gathered from the nations, who have acquired livestock and goods, who dwell in the midst of the land. 13 Sheba, Dedan, the merchants of Tarshish, and all their young lions will say to you, ‘Have you come to take plunder? Have you gathered your army to take booty, to carry away silver and gold, to take away livestock and goods, to take great plunder?’”’

    And now we come to a couple of verses out of this long passage about Gog and Magog.

    In reading this verse I find great difficulty locating the anti-christ.

    In the context of the whole chapter it is simply some details about Gog’s motivation.

    If we look at the whole passage about Gog, we find some interesting details about Israel herein. Ez 38:8 says they have already been gathered from the sword and from all the nations that they were scattered in. Judah and Israel must have been reunited as per Chapter 37 for that is how the whole of Israel can live together in the Land. They are also living as peaceful people, dwelling safely.(v 8 and 11) Like they don’t have rockets being fired at them and all the rest of the things that are presently their lot in the Land.

    If indeed Gog and Magog are another picture of Armageddon, and I am not altogether against that, in fact there is much to warrant such an view, it does mean that prior to it happening we have quite a different scenario in the Land of Israel than what most prophecy students currently understand.

    Certainly Dake’s commentary is filled with nothing but confusion. When one takes the time to actually read the verses quoted as proofs one finds that the ‘proofs’ are spurious and require great leaps of logic.

    If indeed the assumptions of this article are correct, the choice of verses used to support the theory leave a lot to be desired. In my analysis, they are verses taken out of context and are therefore invalid and are nothing but stumbling blocks if indeed you have revelation.

    As you can see, to fully go through each statement and present to you the problems I find would take me forever. I can only hope you take the time to reevaluate them yourself.

    For me, the jury is still out on this one.

    Cheers

    Reg

    Like

  9. ICA
    03/28/2012 at 5:11 PM
    Reply

    Hi Reg, as a whole, Dake’s commentaries are riddled with theological problems, but the article’s intent is not to give credence to all of his thoughts, nor is it to debate preterism/partial preterism or whether or not certain prophetic texts have already been fulfilled or do not refer to Antichrist. That is another debate for another day. Rather, the article’s intent is to show traditional dispensationalists why many of the passages they reject as referring to an eschatonic Antichrist in Ezekiel 38 and 39 would in fact correlate with other passages elsewhere that they believe to be eschatonic and referring to Antichrist.

    By the way, a friend of mine visited Israel recently and enjoyed it immensely. Israel has prospered and grown immensely since its birth in 1948. Sure, there are certain areas that are under constant watch due to terror attacks from Islamic militants (just as there are in the United States), but overall Israel is a safe place to visit and the defensive wall separating Israel from the Palestinians has reduced suicide bombings by 90%, so much so that Israel has been able to reduce the amount of soldiers required on security deployments. Though there is a wall that separates Israel from the Palestinians, Israeli cities and villages are unwalled. They do not have large barriers built up around them as in days of old. In fact, I’d be much more at ease visiting virtually any city in Israel than I would visiting many American cities.

    “According to a study conducted by the University of Haifa’s Center for the Study of Crime, Law & Society, Israel’s murder rate is one of the world’s lowest, which shows the murder rate in Israel is declining. The murder rate per 100,000 residents has remained virtually unchanged over the past 28 years, and has declined during the past few years. The study says that the crime rates have to be examined in relation to the population size. From this perspective, the research shows that the number of murders per 100,000 people was 2.35 in 1980 and 2.29 in 2006. This data is low compared to other countries. For instance, in Russia, the number of murders per 100,000 people was 18 in 2004, and in the United States, the number of murders per 100,000 people was 7.5 during the same year.” (The Jerusalem Post, June 26, 2008)

    Like

  10. Columnist
    06/22/2012 at 3:06 PM
    Reply

    “Because I do buy into the notion that it will be Islam that goes up against Israel, and the RC Church/European Union!!”

    You mean the RC Church and Islam will ally?

    Like

  11. Columnist
    06/22/2012 at 3:07 PM
    Reply

    It seems that Shi’ites and Sunnites will destroy each other, before they attack Israel.

    Like

    • ICA
      06/22/2012 at 5:23 PM
      Reply

      If the Shiites and Sunnis destroy each other, there will be nobody left to attack Israel.

      Like

  12. robert wakefield
    07/01/2012 at 11:59 PM
    Reply

    yet again,another confirmation.we really are into the 5th-6th seal.the bible is true,the Holy Spirit leads to all truth,you only need to seek it.

    Like

  13. Forsythe
    09/02/2012 at 11:25 PM
    Reply

    ICA, I posted this as an answer to someone on another forum that we both frequent and would like your thoughts. Thanks

    I’ve been pondering this for a few days and I’ll be honest, I haven’t studied the Gog/Magog conflict that in depth. I only follow the different postions which seem to be as many as rapture views. But one thing I just noticed is in Rev 19/20 the beast and the false prophet are thrown into the lake of fire but Satan/Dragon is bound for a thousand years – Millenium.

    Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
    Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
    Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
    Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

    Then after the Millenium/1000 years Satan is released and deceives the nations again. Gog and Magog is used again and the wording seems to indicate Gog/Magog is a generic title to nations that are deceived by Satan. Israel would certainly be living in peace in safety at the time of this battle would they not? I don’t know it seems to open a whole new can of worms, but maybe if MidnightWatcher sees this he can add his thoughts.

    Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
    Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
    Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
    Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

    Like

  14. ICA
    09/02/2012 at 11:38 PM
    Reply

    Hi Forsythe, yes, the term “Gog” simply refers to the leader of “Magog”, which are the nations that are with “Gog”. In my view Ezekiel 38-39 and Revelation 20 are separate wars that are simply using the same terms to describe the leader and the nations that side with that leader. If they were the same battles then according to many verses in Ezekiel one would need to conclude that Israel (and much of the world for that matter) would not know God during the Millennium and that God hid His face from His people. For example:

    Ezekiel 39:7, “So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not [let them] pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I [am] the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.”

    Ezekiel 39:29, “Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.”

    The Gog-Magog war of Ezekiel can only take place prior to the Millennial Kingdom.

    Like

  15. Janet Herscu
    09/13/2012 at 1:56 AM
    Reply

    They have to be separate battles because after the 1st invasion from the north (likely Tishrei 1-10, 2012……right after the Rapture) there has to be 7 mths of burying bodies & bldg the 3rd Temple followed by 2300 days (perhaps beginning on the 2nd Passover, 2013) of Temple Desecration til the Return of Christ. Add 10 days of Awe + 7 mths burying + 2300 days to equal 2520 days (approx)…..the 7-yr trib.

    Yom Kip, 2012 is also the end of the 188-day earthquake cycle; and Ezek 38-39 speaks of an earthquake along w/ hail, etc…….could be, but speculation.

    Armageddon takes place in the Valley of Jezreel/Megiddo toward the end of the trib and involves attacks from the East, South and West. This battle ends with the Return of Jesus (Rev 19) when the Jewish Remnant calls Him back.

    With the above in mind, the Rapture is likely this Rosh Hashana, Mon, Sep 17, 2012 (at least as far as the figuring of patterns/Feasts/etc is concerned).

    Like

    • me
      09/21/2012 at 11:32 PM
      Reply

      Looks like the date setters missed another one. And that 188 day cycle thing is new agey. A lot of satanism is gwtting mixed in with Christianity as we near the end of the age.

      Like

  16. me
    09/21/2012 at 11:16 PM
    Reply

    Look carefully at Ez 39 & 39 and you will find that two separate battles are described. The circumstances are different. AND 39 comes first. 38 is the same battle as described in Rev 20:8.

    The Battle in Ez 39 leaves 1/6th of the Gog army alive. Israel buries the dead for seven months and burns the weapons for seven years. Clearly this does not take place just before the tribulation. And to nail this fact down we see God setting His glory amoong the heathen, leading all Israel back for from all the world and never hiding his face again. This has not happened. What calls itself Israel today is not of God. God is still hiding his face from them. When God brings them back they will have “strangers” ie the church with them. From v 20 onward in chapter 39 we see the 1000 reign of Christ.

    In contrast, chapter 38 shows an Israel that dwells in unwalled villages and is at peace. 39 does not describe this. In fact, 39 describes Gog coming against the “land” of Israel PRIOR to Israel being regathered to the “land” of Israel by God in 39:25-27. Further, 38 certainly does not describe the paranoid warlike Israel/IDF of today with its hundreds of of nuvlear weapons. So, it is my ascertion that 38 displays a set of circumstances that can only be created by the kind of peace that only King Jesus can bring to the Holy Land. But then, “when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
    And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.” Rev 20:7-8. And this time fire comes down from heaven and consumes everything.

    And by the way. The temple desecration has nothing to do with these battles. Any temple that is built in Israel and any sacrifice that is made there is an utter abomination and a rejection of Christ’s blood shed on the cross. This temple rebuilding idea is a Luciferian/Masonic doctrine. Rev 11:19 makes clear that the only true temple is in heaven.

    Bottom line: there is no more legitimate temple on this earth anymore. YOU, THE CHURCH, ARE THE TEMPLE.
    And if you want to talk about he who sitteth in the temple of God shewing himself to be God, please allow me to remind you of the tense of the word “sitteth” in that verse as well as the fact that “he” “was, is not, and yet is”. Stretch your brain a little bit. We are dealing with fallen angels who are not limited by time as we are.

    Modern Israel is not of God. They do not obey God or honor him. They spit on the blood of Christ. Every form of sin and abomination is practiced in Israel today. They hold onto the holy land not by faith but by brutality. The modern state of Israel was funded and created by the Rothschild banking family with the help of the satanic state of England. The “star of David” is a hexagram and has nothing to do with David. It has its origin in Egypt. Don’t believe me?

    Amos 5:
    25 Have ye offered unto me sacrifices and offerings in the wilderness forty years, O house of Israel?
    26 But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves.

    The zionists have blinded the modern church. They are a pillar of Babylon. It is time to come out of your delusion,church.

    Like

  17. ICA
    09/22/2012 at 12:14 AM
    Reply

    Hi “me”, thank you for your reply, but Ezekiel 38 is not the same battle as Revelation 20:7-8. Here are five quick reasons why:

    1. Ezekiel 38:16 alone forbids it, where God Himself infers that the nations do not yet know Him, hardly a description of what we would expect during the Millennial Reign of Christ when “the mountain of the LORD’s house Shall be established on the top of the mountains, And shall be exalted above the hills; And all nations shall flow to it” (Isaiah 2:2), not to mention the fact that by your own admission “the nations shall know that [I am] the LORD, the Holy One in Israel” (Ezek 39:7b).

    2. Ezekiel 38:17 tells us that the prophets of Israel formerly spoke about Gog. If Ezekiel 38 is the same battle as Revelation 20:7-8, where did the prophets speak of the Gog of Revelation 20:7-8 previously?

    3. Why does God say “I would bring you [Gog] against [My people Israel]” after having already restored them? For what purpose, especially given the fact that God specifically says “I will make My holy name known in the midst of My people Israel, and I will not [let them] profane My holy name anymore … I will not hide My face from them anymore; for I shall have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel” (Ezek 39:7a,29)? Do they suddenly reject their Messiah again for some inexplicable reason?

    4. In Revelation 20:8, it is Satan who gathers them together, not God. Why?

    5. The judgment and destruction of Ezekiel 38:19-22 describes Armageddon: a great earthquake, men shake at the presence of God, mountains thrown down, armies are confounded and attack each other, pestilence, bloodshed, hailstones, fire, brimstone. In Revelation 20:7-9 we have none of this — God simply sends down fire and puts an immediate end to the rebellion.

    Ezekiel 38 is an overall view of Gog-Magog, from its beginning up until it’s end — what we often refer to as Armageddon. Ezekiel 39 is not a continuation of 38 per se, but rather more of a repeat of how Gog-Magog ends, that is, as a close-up view of Armageddon and its aftermath with a few additional focal points added in, such as referring back to why the Jewish people have suffered greatly throughout the centuries and could have been destroyed during this final battle of the ages (cf. Ezek 39:23-24) had it not been for Messianic intervention. The two chapters are continuous, but are styled Semitically. Once all is said and done they will be delivered and restored in full, not by their might, but by the Almighty Himself — the Holy One in Israel (cf Ezek 39:25-29).

    me, “And by the way. The temple desecration has nothing to do with these battles. Any temple that is built in Israel and any sacrifice that is made there is an utter abomination and a rejection of Christ’s blood shed on the cross.”

    See the article titled “2 Thessalonians 2:4 — A Rebuilt Jewish Temple, or Something Else?”

    me, “Modern Israel is not of God. They do not obey God or honor him. They spit on the blood of Christ. Every form of sin and abomination is practiced in Israel today.”

    “For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who [are] natural [branches], be grafted into their own olive tree? For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: ‘The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob'” (Romans 11:24-26).

    Like

    • iamnotashamedofthegospelofchrist
      09/23/2012 at 8:35 PM
      Reply

      Great disscussion ICA. I have couple of things. I understand & agree about Gog and Armageddon. I believe we are between the 5th & 6th seal, 5th and 6th trumpet etc. What I’m trying to reconcile is the 6th trumpet war, do you suppose that this is what happens with the initial attack on Israel or the West that reveals the Mahdi/AC? That leads to Gog and Armageddon? Just one more statement really. I understand the importance of the Jewish feasts and such, but I just can’t hold a lot of pertinence, we have to trust in Jesus, he gave us signs and seasons to watch for, I’m just not sure that they are the same seasons as the observant Jews. My main reason for that is the obvious “no one knows.” But also Jesus chastised and said you stiff necked people you can look at the sky and say it will rain, but can’t interpret the times you’re in. That said I stand by Israel and they are no more evil than we are in this country. Any info on 6th trumpet you can give me is appreciated.

      Like

  18. artaxes
    12/10/2012 at 6:35 PM
    Reply

    Many have speculated about the location of Magog and the identity of Gog.
    I looked at it from a perspective I have so far not seen anywhere.
    Since you seem to understand a lot about scripture, something which I don’t, could you take a look at my blog article at http://www.artaxes.wordpress.com ?
    I ask you, because I think I have a bit of potentially important information, which I think is my duty to share.
    Any comments are appreciated.

    Like

  19. ICA
    05/28/2013 at 12:37 PM
    Reply

    Article updated to include “The Identity of Gog – An Alternative Explanation”.

    Like

  20. Kurt J.
    05/30/2013 at 3:28 PM
    Reply

    Great article, made even better. I don’t see a single point with which I disagree. Some might find fault with you calling the OT’s “king of the north” and other personifications of Satan/his followers “Antichrist” when that term is only found in 1 and 2 John, but I also think we’re discussing the same person/system.

    What’s with PP Simmons posting a rapture date?? Were they always mid-trib? 6/6/2013 (2+0+1+3 adds up to 6), number of the beast, 6-6-6. Would be awesome if they’re right, but doesn’t comport with numerous scriptures. Do you know him/them?

    Like

    • ICA
      05/30/2013 at 4:08 PM
      Reply

      PPSimmons always says “We Report, You Decide”. The date is another one that will come and go without incident. I’ve had some discussions with them and we see eye to eye on some things, but not on this. Their view appears to be more akin to Rosenthal’s pre-wrath position, which I’ve argued against many times before in the past. (If you recall, I had a very long debate with Alan Kurschner a few years back on Joels Trumpet).

      Like

  21. Nadia
    06/02/2013 at 9:44 PM
    Reply

    I agree with Kurt, a great article made even better, and very compelling, the new section with an alternative identity for Gog is a fascinating consideration.

    Like

  22. jojothierry
    06/09/2013 at 12:34 PM
    Reply

    Very interesting! My family has been in ministry my entire life. We use to show end time films staged in store fronts to passer byers as a tool to salvation. So the tribulation end time popular interpretation and understanding of what will unfold has been imbedded – though there have been many holes.

    I have read and sat under many a interpretation of end times and Antichrist ( end times not so much preached anymore in modern church, but Antichrist, the pews and pulpits have with bated breath been seeking “whom” to crown as the “son of Satan” ) and I have NEVER heard such a perspective – but have thought it. And the parallel bet Gog-Magog and Armageddon is compelling!

    That Antichrist is not a person but a power or system. Great study points to research! The bible refers to a spirit of Antichrist so in our simplicity, I think the triune existence of God has been duplicated with the existence of Satan and Antichrist. Thus, we created a “person” Antichrist similar to the Godhead with the Antichrist person being the evil doppelganger of Christ (Jesus) like Satan’s son so to speak, the sprit of antichrist being the evil doppelganger of the Holy Spirit, and Satan their God.

    Theologians, right or not, I was taught the following and this is a common summary/ understanding of Antichrist, Rapture, Tribulation, and Armageddon

    Antichrist is a fatherless man…
    Faring from the north euro/middle east area, somewhere near Turkey or the north part of the middle east
    He is not evil to begin with
    He gets shot in the head and is brought back to life where during that process, he is completely possessed with the spirit of Antichrist or Satan and becomes evil

    He will be an attractive smooth talking man whom women adore
    He is a great peace keeper – solving world problems and admired by even the elect in the religious world and befriended by Jews

    (now here is where it gets fuzzy on the timelines and overlapping of events)

    He rebuilds Babylon which becomes the world’s mecca, the great city of all government and trade.
    He gets arrogant in his power and influence and decides that he is a God.
    He denounces all religion. Religion becomes anti peaceful.
    The world’s money system fails or is eliminated.
    Everyone is rationed daily provisions though a mark (666) on the hand, forehead or neck to buy or get anything as an option.
    Those rejecting the mark are deemed anti progression, unintelligent, heretics, and anti peaceful
    A religious rebellion hides in the underground disguising their faith and waiting on the return of Christ.
    There is a great earthquake, a shout and a trumpet, and Rapture of the church takes place Mass pandemonium occurs as many disappear, and are left behind and babies are taken from their mothers wombs.
    Death is removed from the earth
    People want to die but cannot, as death has been removed from earth
    The Rapture is explained as the universes approval of the new world order by removing all of the bad religious people.
    Antichrist declares himself to be God
    Antichrist show his power/deity, by raising the dead, bringing fire from heaven
    Those rejecting him and the new world order are enemies of the world need to be killed
    He builds a statue of himself for people to worship
    The Jews rebel and denounce him
    Tribulation begins
    A rebellion and 144,000 Jews go into hiding in the hills
    Seven seals, trumpets, perils are opened over the course of seven years
    Great torment and famine occurs, seas turn to blood etc…
    The Antichrist and mankind have gone completely insane
    Enoch and Elijah arrive at the Wailing Wall reminding him/them that his time is near
    He and man try to kill them challenge God
    Armageddon battle begins
    The sun turns red as blood
    The earth goes dark
    A light appears from the east, It is Jesus and his army
    They defeat Antichrist, Satan is held captive
    Those in hiding and the Jews come out of hiding
    Jews accept their messiah Jesus
    Peace is declared on earth for 1000 years
    Satan is released again for a brief period on earth
    Final Judgment occurs
    Satan, his hell, and those not written in the Lambs Book of Life are cast into the lake of fire.
    A new Heaven and New Earth are created

    Like

  23. Sheryl Wright Stinchcum
    06/15/2013 at 2:39 AM
    Reply

    I wish had something relevant to say on this subject, but I’ve always found it confusing precisely because it’s found in Ezekiel and Revelation, and I don’t know if the time frames match. You mentioned Joel Richardson. I think he places Magog in Turkey. Anyway, you’ve studied this more than I have. Thanks for your input. I need to take a closer look at those passages. Blessings.

    Like

  24. Johnson
    11/05/2013 at 9:12 AM
    Reply

    I have a question. Why Gog Magog are considered to be in Russia?

    Like

  25. ICA
    11/05/2013 at 11:42 AM
    Reply

    Johnson, “I have a question. Why Gog Magog are considered to be in Russia?”

    Hi Johnson, thank you for your question. Russia is not mentioned in the Gog of Magog war of Ezekiel 38 and 39. Aside from “remote north”, the only word that many often point to in an effort to suggest that Russia is mentioned is the word “rosh” (H7218) in 38:2, but this word simply means “chief” or “head”, as in Rosh Hashanah (Head of the Year). Nowhere in the whole of Scripture has “rosh” ever referred to Russia.

    If we consider Gog of Magog and the “known world” from Ezekiel’s time and perspective, however, the far north would likely bring us all the way up to the Black Sea and the northern shores of modern day Turkey to areas northeast of Turkey, even to northern Iran and Afghanistan and beyond where we find other former Soviet Republics. It is my view that we are likely looking at northern nations/peoples/fighters from Turkey, Azerbaijan, Dagestan and possibly even Chechnya, and across the Caspian Sea to Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Tajikistan. In these areas, Islam is the dominant religion. This does not mean that Russia will not be involved, however. After all, there are “many people” or “nations” with Gog according to 38:6, and Russia could be one of them in some way, shape or form. But Russia is not mentioned by name specifically at all in the text.

    Like

  26. Kurt J.
    08/18/2014 at 3:50 PM
    Reply

    When you get time I would love to see your reaction to this Joel Richardson article: http://www.joelstrumpet.com/?p=6901 He and you seem to differ in his view that Israel will be taken captive and occupied before the return of the Lord to destroy Gog. Thanks.

    Like

  27. ICA
    08/18/2014 at 5:30 PM
    Reply

    Kurt, “When you get time I would love to see your reaction to this Joel Richardson article: http://www.joelstrumpet.com/?p=6901 He and you seem to differ in his view that Israel will be taken captive and occupied before the return of the Lord to destroy Gog.”

    Hi Kurt. In a nutshell, Joel’s position states that “prior to the invasion by Gog and his hordes, the Jewish people are portrayed as living in the land with a relative sense of ease and security, whereas, after the Gog and Magog invasion, they are described as being dispersed among the nations as captives returning to the land.” This is the pillar of his position. One question, however, that I think we need to ask in this discussion is whether or not “Jacob’s Trouble” is confined to just Gog-Magog-Armageddon-Great Tribulation, as some believe today. The fact of the matter, I believe, is that the time of “Jacob’s Trouble” has been going on for nearly 2000 years, and it is a time that will soon culminate with Gog-Magog. Nobody can deny that Jacob has been in a struggle for survival since the first century. This is historical fact.

    With respect to Joel’s article, I personally don’t quite see it the same way as our friend Joel does, that the Jews of Israel will be “dispersed among the nations as captives” because of Gog-Magog. According to Ezekiel, after Gog and his armies are destroyed we then read that “Then those who dwell in the cities of Israel will go out and set on fire and burn the weapons” (39:9). If the Jewish people were dispersed among the nations as Joel suggests, then who are the Jewish people that already “dwell in the cities of Israel”? I would argue that they are not all dispersed among the nations as captives at all. Additionally, what nations would Joel suggest that Ezekiel is referring to? Western nations would likely not be the ones taking Jews as captives — they’ve already been there, done that. And Muslim nations (which Joel would likely agree are the ones in view at Gog-Magog) would likely not be taking Jews as captives, either. According to Islamic “prophecy” and the “prophet” of Islam himself, Muslims must kill Jews and slaughter every last one of them in order to usher in Judgment Day, not take them as “captives.”

    Hadith, Tabari 7:97, “The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, ‘Kill any Jew who falls under your power.’”

    Hadith, Sahih Muslim, 41:6985, “The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him …”

    In my view, it is therefore highly tenuous to suggest that Muslim nations will be taking hundreds of thousands or even millions of “never again” Jews as captives.

    Judging from Joel’s article, he is reading Ezekiel 38 and 39 chronologically. As was mentioned earlier, Ezekiel 38 is an overall view of Gog-Magog, from its beginning up until its end — what we often refer to as Armageddon. But according to the text, Ezekiel 39 is not a continuation of 38 per se, but rather more of a repeat or a recap of how Gog-Magog ends (and, ultimately, how the time of “Jacob’s Trouble” ends). Chapter 39 is a close-up view of Armageddon and its aftermath with a few additional focal points added in, such as referring back to why the Jewish people had suffered greatly throughout the centuries and were dispersed among the nations because of their unfaithfulness to God (cf. Ezek 39:23-24). But now God is restoring them (Ezek 39:25-29). In my view, it is self evident that Ezek 39:25-29 — what Joel views as happening after Gog-Magog — is a recap of Ezek 38:8 and 11-12, which in fact happened before Gog-Magog. Joel’s article, therefore, suggests that God restores His people from captivity and restores their wasteland, only to send them all into captivity and lay waste to the land all over again. But what Joel views as taking place during and after Gog-Magog in Ezekiel 39:23-29, I tend to view as the restoration that has already taken place since 1948, the restoration that is taking place today, and the complete restoration to come. There are hundreds of thousands of Christians and Messianic Jews now living in Israel, and their numbers are growing daily. Ezekiel 39:25-29 is fulfilled in part, but not in full and is more parenthetical and explanatory, not descriptive of forthcoming and imminent peril, imho.

    One additional point. While Joel and I both agree that Gog-Magog is synonymous with the Day of the Lord, it should be pointed out that the Apostle Paul describes the destruction of Israel’s enemies alone on the Day of the Lord, not the destruction of Israel. (Joel viewed this “sudden destruction” as referring to Israel at one time but now seems to have moved away from that position recently.) The enemies of Israel will be the ones anticipating “peace and safety” immediately prior to the day of the Lord when they surround Jerusalem because of their expectation that they are going to destroy Israel. We even see this today:

    * Palestinian Authority: Peace For Us Means Israel’s Destruction
    * Turkey: PM Erdogan Calls Israel A Threat To Middle East Peace
    * Iran: World Must Annihilate Israel To ‘Solve All The World’s Problems’
    * UK: Pro-Palestinian London Activists: For Peace Israel Must Be Destroyed
    * Pakistani Cleric: World Peace Only Once All Jews Are Wiped From Earth
    * New York: Ground Zero Mosque Imam Says For Peace Israel Must Be Destroyed

    1 Thessalonians 5:2-3, “For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when THEY shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon THEM, as travail upon a woman with child; and THEY shall not escape.”

    If the fulfillment of Ezekiel 39:25-29 began in 1948, then on the grounds of Amos 9:14-15 I am persuaded that Israel will never be overrun and its people dispersed among the nations ever again. “‘I will bring back the captives of My people Israel; They shall build the waste cities and inhabit them; They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them; They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them. I will plant them in their land, and no longer shall they be pulled up from the land I have given them,’ Says the LORD your God.” And when God makes a promise, that’s a promise you can hang your hat on.

    Like

  28. Kurt J.
    08/18/2014 at 5:43 PM
    Reply

    Yes, I align more with your view. I do think that Ezek 39:25 is a recap and review of what takes place prior to Ezek 38. And Jacob has been “in trouble” since 70AD, perhaps ending in 1947/48 with the founding of the State of Israel, following a genocide at least 6 times that of the destruction of Jerusalem and the murdering of 1 million Jews. Dalton Lifsey (The Controversy of Zion) and Joel seem to be very agreeable on their eschatology–have you read his book? (I haven’t actually, just some of his articles) Given your apparent differences I am surprised you provide a link to his site. I think you should substitute it with a link to mine ;-)

    Like

  29. ICA
    08/19/2014 at 12:24 PM
    Reply

    I have Joel’s website up too, even though he and I disagree on a couple of points. Differing views can often be a good thing. It spurs study, and sharpens the sword of truth.

    Like

  30. Willard
    08/19/2014 at 1:10 PM
    Reply

    This is a link to an old book with information as to where Gog and Magog are located

    http://www.imninalu.net/G&M.htm

    Like

  31. Willard
    08/19/2014 at 1:14 PM
    Reply

    This link is to the Site map

    http://www.imninalu.net/sitemap.htm

    Like

  32. mike d
    04/19/2015 at 2:35 AM
    Reply

    Could not Gig and Magog battle be at end of 1000 year reign?

    Like

  33. ICA
    04/19/2015 at 2:16 PM
    Reply

    mike d, “Could not Gig and Magog battle be at end of 1000 year reign?”

    Hi Mike D, the Gog/Magog battle of Ezekiel 38 is not the same Gog-Magog battle described in Revelation 20:7-8. As noted in a prior comment above, there are a few reasons why:

    1. Ezekiel 38:16 alone forbids it, where God Himself infers that the nations do not yet know Him, hardly a description of what we would expect during the Millennial Reign of Christ when “the mountain of the LORD’s house Shall be established on the top of the mountains, And shall be exalted above the hills; And all nations shall flow to it” (Isaiah 2:2), not to mention the fact that by your own admission “the nations shall know that [I am] the LORD, the Holy One in Israel” (Ezek 39:7b).

    2. Ezekiel 38:17 tells us that the prophets of Israel formerly spoke about Gog. If Ezekiel 38 is the same battle as Revelation 20:7-8, where did the prophets speak of the Gog of Revelation 20:7-8 previously?

    3. Why does God say “I would bring you [Gog] against [My people Israel]” after having already restored them? For what purpose, especially given the fact that God specifically says “I will make My holy name known in the midst of My people Israel, and I will not [let them] profane My holy name anymore … I will not hide My face from them anymore; for I shall have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel” (Ezek 39:7a,29)? Do they suddenly reject their Messiah again for some inexplicable reason?

    4. In Revelation 20:8, it is Satan who gathers them together, not God. Why?

    5. The judgment and destruction of Ezekiel 38:19-22 describes Armageddon: a great earthquake, men shake at the presence of God, mountains thrown down, armies are confounded and attack each other, pestilence, bloodshed, hailstones, fire, brimstone. In Revelation 20:7-9 we have none of this — God simply sends down fire and puts an immediate end to the rebellion.

    Ezekiel 38 is an overall view of Gog-Magog, from its beginning up until it’s end — what we often refer to as Armageddon. Ezekiel 39 is not a continuation of 38 per se, but rather more of a repeat of how Gog-Magog ends, that is, as a close-up view of Armageddon and its aftermath with a few additional focal points added in, such as referring back to why the Jewish people have suffered greatly throughout the centuries and could have been destroyed during this final battle of the ages (cf. Ezek 39:23-24) had it not been for Messianic intervention. The two chapters are continuous, but are styled Semitically. Once all is said and done they will be delivered and restored in full, not by their might, but by the Almighty Himself — the Holy One in Israel (cf Ezek 39:25-29).

    Hope this helps!

    Like

    • mike d
      06/09/2015 at 10:34 PM
      Reply

      Hi if the gog battle is the same as final anti Christ battle, what battle happens when anti Christ sits in temple mid point?people are told to run in Israel to mountains? And if anti Christ subdued Egypt and Libya and Sudan,they must go through Israel to do this? Thanks

      Like

      • ICA
        06/10/2015 at 11:25 AM
        Reply

        Antichrist will have already “subdued” the nations surrounding Israel (Islamic nations) prior to Gog-Magog. Having control over them to the point where many band together to come against Israel is indicative of the type of regional dominion that Antichrist must wield ahead of Armageddon.

        Joel 3:11-12, “Hasten and come, all you surrounding nations, And gather yourselves there. Bring down, O LORD, Your mighty ones. Let the nations be aroused And come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat, For there I will sit to judge All the surrounding nations.”

        Zechariah 12:2, “Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah [and] against Jerusalem.”

        Like

        • mike d
          06/12/2015 at 11:12 AM
          Reply

          Thank you,maybe I,m missing something, but if Antichrist sits in Israel 3.5 years before end, and rules from there through Jacobs trouble! That means he has already conquered israel does it not?That’s all I’m asking

          Like

          • mike d
            06/12/2015 at 11:59 AM
            Reply

            The reason why I ask is most people agree Antichrist sits in temple mid point in 7 year peace treaty? But you believe 7 years starts at Christ baptism? If Antichrist is in Jerusalem 3.5 years before end,then only one last battle as Joel Richardson suggest is questionable. Not many people who believe in Islamic paradigm seem to deal with the fact Antichrist is in Jerusalem 3.5 years till end only people who deal with Roman theory deal with this?that’s why I,m asking.Does antichrist reside their or not?,or is it possible he only visits sits and goes,maybe its just all speculation?thanks for answering, maybe someone else has a idea?blessings

            Like

          • Alan Peters
            06/15/2015 at 5:13 AM
            Reply

            If the Antichrist is something to do with the Muslim world, have you considered that a Muslim terrorist group or groups, already operating in Israel could be said metaphorically to be “seated in the Temple” and “controlling events” without actually having fought a battle to “defeat” Israel?

            To that extent, we could already be in the (mid) tribulation period, with terror groups residing in Israel at the mid point of the Tribulation, without any apparent contradictions because “Israel has not been defeated”

            If this is the case then the arrival of Christ will be in approximately 3.5 years, or maybe even less if we are already past the mid-term.

            Consider what Jesus said about the date when referring to Daniel’s prophecy:

            “Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.”

            This was applied to Jesus’ first coming as seventy-weeks-of-years but the equation broke down after Jesus’ first arrival and we are now supposed to be in a “pause” situation waiting for the second coming, which really means that the prophecy has failed.

            However, what if this prophecy did not start until the New Jewish State of Israel was created in 1948 and the “commandment to restore and build Jerusalem” actually meant the “command to restore Israel as a nation”? The “command going forth” would then be UN Resolution 181 issued on 29th November 1947

            Seventy weeks translated as seventy years would indicate Jesus’ arrival on 29 November 2017 which would also tie in with his other prediction that the generation which saw the “fig tree’s shoots appear” (creation of the new Israel?) would not pass away before he came.

            A generation or lifespan is generally accepted as 70 years so is November 2017 going to be the date of His arrival and should we be preparing?

            Like

  34. ICA
    06/12/2015 at 2:41 PM
    Reply

    mike d, “Thank you,maybe I,m missing something, but if Antichrist sits in Israel 3.5 years before end, and rules from there through Jacobs trouble! That means he has already conquered israel does it not? … Not many people who believe in Islamic paradigm seem to deal with the fact Antichrist is in Jerusalem 3.5 years till end”

    Hi mike d, the text of Scripture prophesied that Antichrist would sit in the “temple” and wage wars — not conquer Israel for 3.5 years. This is a common misconception. The Prophet Zechariah, for instance, even says himself that only half of Jerusalem would be taken. If Israel were to be completely conquered, as some believe, then this would necessitate that all of Jerusalem be completely overrun. But this will not happen:

    Zechariah 14:2, “For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women raped. Half of the city shall go out into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city.”

    From my standpoint, and in light of Zechariah’s perspective, Scripture is referring to the eastern portion of Jerusalem that includes the “Old City” that was built around 1000 years before Christ. The Old City, also known as the City of David, was the entire city of Jerusalem up until about 1860. The Western Wall is there, as is the Church of the Holy Sepulchre along with the Dome of the Rock and al Aqsa Mosque. It is near where Jesus was crucified and is the spiritual homestead of the Judeo-Christian faith.

    Jews, Christians and Muslims all now reside within the Old City. Today, however, Muslims make up the overwhelming number of residents. And as we are being regularly reminded, these residents have become increasingly “radicalized” and lawless, filled with a fomenting hatred of Jews and even Christians. In light of Zechariah 14, we can therefore expect to one day witness an “intifada” unlike any other. Perhaps a triggering event of some sort will spur the Muslim population to immediately rise up (Antichrist visiting the al Aqsa mosque on the temple mount, perhaps?), to possibly then be joined by others either coming from or coming through the West Bank, effectively taking over much of the Old City. As is par for the course during jihad, they will plunder the homes of Jews and Christians while raping the women as the “spoils of war.” Since we know what is coming, and Who is coming, let us therefore not sleep as others do, but let us watch and be sober.

    mike d, “most people agree Antichrist sits in temple mid point in 7 year peace treaty? But you believe 7 years starts at Christ baptism?”

    I believe that Daniel’s 70th week began with the revealing of who the Messiah was, yes, but that only half of the 70th week is fulfilled. It was “paused” in the middle of the week with the death of Christ. At this point I still view the remaining second half (3.5 years) as yet to be fulfilled.

    mike d, “If Antichrist is in Jerusalem 3.5 years before end,then only one last battle as Joel Richardson suggest is questionable… Does antichrist reside their or not?,or is it possible he only visits sits and goes,maybe its just all speculation?”

    I can see that Antichrist will be in East Jerusalem — already populated mostly by Muslims — but not confined to it. I believe that Gog-Magog will last for much of the last half of the 70th week and will culminate at Armageddon, but God-Magog will not result in the destruction, nor the full occupation, of Israel.

    God began bringing back His people to Israel in 1948 with the creation of the Jewish State. He is doing this to restore them, not to set them up for a second Holocaust.

    Joel 3:1-2, 11-12, “For behold, in those days and at that time, when I bring back the captives of Judah and Jerusalem, I will also gather all nations, and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat; And I will enter into judgment with them there on account of My people, My heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations; They have also divided up My land… Hasten and come, all you surrounding nations, And gather yourselves there. Bring down, O LORD, Your mighty ones. Let the nations be aroused and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat, for there I will sit to judge all the surrounding nations.”

    mike d, “only people who deal with Roman theory deal with this?”

    For a bit of history, as numerous scholars and historians will attest, by the time Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed in 70 AD the Roman Legions responsible for the destruction were dominated by eastern peoples from Syria, Egypt, Asia Minor (Turkey) and that general area. Even though they were considered Roman citizens, all those who “scattered [the Jews] among the nations” and divided up God’s land for gain according to Joel 3:2 were Middle Eastern. Today, they are Muslim nations.

    Following the destruction of 70 AD, the Jewish people were dispersed and exiled into captivity again for over 1800 years. In 1948, however, God began restoring the nation of Israel after 2/3 of all Jews in Europe were killed during the Holocaust of WWII. But, as before, the very same peoples that surrounded the tiny new Jewish State of Israel wanted nothing more than to eradicate the Jews and divide the land for gain. Unfortunately for the surrounding nations, however, this time the Jews of Israel are not going anywhere. After God brought His people back to the land again the second time the Prophet Joel tells us that He would also then gather the surrounding nations for judgment “on account of My people, My heritage Israel” who would never again be uprooted and scattered. And no matter how hard the Islamic nations surrounding Israel today fight to “liberate” the land and eliminate the Jews, when God makes a promise, it’s a promise He intends to keep …

    Amos 9:14-15, “… I will bring my people Israel back from exile. ‘They will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them. They will plant vineyards and drink their wine; they will make gardens and eat their fruit. I will plant Israel in their own land, never again to be uprooted from the land I have given them,’ says the LORD your God.”

    Hope this helps! God bless …

    Like

    • mike d
      06/12/2015 at 3:52 PM
      Reply

      Yes thanks,when Israel makes 7 year treaty no doubt land for peace will be part of the bargain, so greater attacks similar to what already is happening in Gaza will happen, after 3.5 years of ever increasing troubles instigated by Antichrist from possibility east Jerusalem.at the end of appointed time he decides to take all Israel once and for all, when he takes it for a belief time.he gets worried and panics because of the kings of the north,and east,and no doubt other nations see through the Islamic deception,and a final battle comes to the plain of Israel. Which will usher in the return of Christ.of course how it all transpires will have many fluctuations.But yes if Antichrist only has some control of Israel and is able to make limited attacks taking hostages and causing destruction. I can see your point.blessings thanks.

      Like

  35. Danny
    07/31/2015 at 10:30 PM
    Reply

    Who are these prophets of Israel that God is referring to in Ezekiel 38:17? Thanks!

    Like

    • ICA
      07/31/2015 at 11:49 PM
      Reply

      If “in the latter days” God is speaking about “the prophets of old” then He is speaking about prophets like Ezekiel, Daniel, Job, Isaiah …

      Like

  1. 08/14/2011 at 11:12 PM
    Precursor to Armageddon? Hizbullah MP Believes That Syria, Iraq, Iran, and Hizbullah (Lebanon) Will Wipe Out Israel « MidnightWatcher's Blogspot

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