Home > Anything Else, Theology and Eschatology > Petrus Romanus: Will The Next Pope Be The False Prophet Of Revelation 13?

Petrus Romanus: Will The Next Pope Be The False Prophet Of Revelation 13?

By Joel Richardson – “Well, here we go. The announcement of the resignation of Pope Benedict [has] caused somewhat of an explosion with the prophecy-sphere of eschatological conspiracy-theorizing and speculation. What of St. Malachy’s prophecy? Does this mean the final pope is here? How did the authors of Petrus Romanus know that the Pope would resign?

The answer to these questions is as follows: St. Malachy’s prophecy is a proven fraud. The next pope is not likely to be the final pope. And for well over two years now, long before Petrus Romanus was written, there has been talk of the Pope resigning. See for example here, where there was public talk of his resignation as late 2011. In fact, Benedict’s brother, George Ratzinger, also a priest, suggested last year that the Pope might retire at age 85. And Benedict, himself even made a case for papal resignation in a book titled, ‘Light of the World’ published back in 2010. Despite the bold claims of the authors of Petrus Romanus, nowhere in the book do they ever actually predict the Pope would resign. What they do (see page 59) is simply cite some of the previous discussions that were in the news concerning the Pope stepping down, and strongly speculate that this might take place in 2012. 2012 of course, was the target date set by the authors for the revealing of the Antichrist or the False Prophet. Next on their agenda: To show how the Vatican is planning on ushering in an alien Antichrist.

I want to be clear that my point is not to personally attack the authors of these works, but to simply call on responsible Christians not to engage in the kind of silly and rampant speculation that revolves almost entirely around conspiracy theories, sectarian polemics, and extra-Biblical pseudo-prophecies. It truly saddens me to see so many widely known prophecy teachers openly support the theories in these books. Along these lines, an interesting observation was made by my friend Ray Gano of Prophezine. Gano pointed out that virtually all of the more well [known] prophecy teachers who are supporting the Petrus Romanus theory are pre-tribulationalists. Now think this through. Pre-tribulational Dispensationalism has always been firm that the Antichrist and False Prophet will not be revealed before the rapture. Now, the next Pope, which they are claiming will be the False Prophet of Revelation 13, is said to be installed as soon as next month. So if the Pope is installed, then either he is not the False Prophet, or the rapture is not pre-tribulational. Take your pick. It seems that many of these pre-tribulational supporters of the Petrus Romanus theory have cast themselves into a genuinely sticky wicket.

In conclusion, my appeal again to all who read this blog, is to please be responsible Christians. The urgency of the hour demands sobriety, not engaging in foolish speculations.

The end of all things is near. Therefore be clear minded and self-controlled so that you can pray. Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins. —1 Peter 4:7-8

Source – Joels Trumpet.

  1. 02/13/2013 at 11:55 AM

    Reblogged this on 'I Am Not Ashamed Of The Gospel Of Christ's Blog' and commented:
    Great post. It’s so easy to get lost in the mucky mire of prophecy and interpretation. I find myself a lot these day’s in prayer to sift and discern. And your right caution and discernment is needed. It doesn’t hurt to hear of others opinions, but God and the Bible is the ultimate answer. Thanks again, ICA and God Bless. Praying for Knowledge, wisdom and guidance. We are in for a wild spiritual battle with all the confusion and evil being unleashed on the world. It’s good to unite in seeking knowledge and discernment.


  2. Mike
    02/13/2013 at 12:06 PM

    Absolutely right on. So many prophecy enthusiasts are not using discernment, but just reacting irresponsibly to whatever they can read into a text for the purpose of making their view fit. They’re going to be in a world of trouble when the real antichrist shows up and they don’t think it is the real,authentic Biblical antichrist.


  3. Mike Watts
    02/13/2013 at 1:06 PM

    I agree we should use prayer and discernment. The anti-christ will not be revealed “for certain” until after the rapture. But as we are to watch and “be sober” we can know the time is near. All this tells us is that the rapture can happen at any time. We may have a guess at who could be the false prophet or who can be the anti-christ but when it is revealed we will be gone. Thank God the bible is clear on a pre-trib rapture


  4. M
    02/13/2013 at 1:07 PM

    Love G-D Love Others even Your enemies Focus on HIM share HIS Love and Good News
    With everyone


  5. 02/13/2013 at 3:31 PM

    Richardson says

    Gano pointed out that virtually all of the more well [known] prophecy teachers who are supporting the Petrus Romanus theory are pre-tribulationalists. Now think this through. Pre-tribulational Dispensationalism has always been firm that the Antichrist and False Prophet will not be revealed before the rapture. Now, the next Pope, which they are claiming will be the False Prophet of Revelation 13, is said to be installed as soon as next month. So if the Pope is installed, then either he is not the False Prophet, or the rapture is not pre-tribulational. Take your pick. It seems that many of these pre-tribulational supporters of the Petrus Romanus theory have cast themselves into a genuinely sticky wicket.

    Most of the wacky, conspiratorial theories I have seen on forums seem to come from Pre-Trib believers.

    On the other hand, this situation is worth watching just because of all the other related developments that seem to be coalescing over the next few months and years vis a vis the return of Yeshua.


  6. Ken M.
    02/13/2013 at 8:26 PM

    I’d like a true Christian theologian to examine these claims. Is the entire Malachy prophecy a fraud or only portions of it? However, it doens’t really matter because I believe that there are no true Godly prophets since the closing of Scripture. Just good guessers, restaters of End Times Biblical prophecies and perhaps those with a familiar unclean spirit who knows future things simply becasue they are ‘CYCLICAL’ and happen like clockwork such as Astronomical events.


    • 02/13/2013 at 11:32 PM

      Keep in mind my friend that the LORD used Nebuccanezzer to give an end times prophecy to. His ways are not our ways. I have read Petrus Romanus and assure you it is a scholarly work. They make no claims that any of this will come to fruition but point out some amazing insights, I highly recommend the read. Can God use a 900 year old prophecy of a Catholic Priest? One thing is for sure, we will know soon. If the next Pope’s name is not Peter the Roman or some close resemblance (He must be Italian, the name is not that important as all Pope’s are of considered part of “Petrine Doctrine”. Not sure how much you know about Tom Horn, but if you haven’t heard him, I encourage you to find him on You-Tube. God Bless


      • Bonnar
        02/14/2013 at 6:31 AM

        They make no claim that any of this will come to pass, yet the actual title of the book and every promotional video repeatedly says, “The Final Pope is Here”. Give me break.


      • 02/15/2013 at 12:27 AM

        The scripture reference to the next to LAST POPE is in Revelation 17:9-10,”a short time,”. I have only become familiar with it since the announcement of retirement. I would caution you to keep an open mind in regards to eschatology. Don’t forget about the end time prophecy of ,”scoffers”, lest you find you are helping its fulfillment. Christ said to ”
        Mark 13:33 “Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is”
        Sober, yes, vigilant also.


  7. 02/13/2013 at 11:26 PM

    Here is what I just left on Joel’s blog: Joel, I have appreciated your articles, books and commentary on this site for some time now. Sometimes agreeing, sometimes not. In respect to this subject, I could not disagree more. I have read Petrus Romanus and it is both scholarly AND responsible making no claims of fact that Malachy’s prophecies are 100% accurate or if the next Pope is the final pope. I will say that they have obviously put in hundreds of hours of research and study for their 600 page work and I wonder if you have done the same to make the 100% assertion that ” St. Malachy’s prophecy is a proven fraud”. In fact they tackle that subject at great length in the book. The LORD chose to use a wicked, arrogant and Pagan king named Nebuchadnezzar and then used a believer (Daniel) to bring the prophecy to forbearance.


    • Bonnar
      02/14/2013 at 6:33 AM

      They make no claim that any of this will come to pass, yet the actual title of the book and every promotional video repeatedly says, “The Final Pope is Here”. So is he here or not? Give me a break.


      • 02/14/2013 at 6:46 AM

        Maybe you shouldn’t judge a book by its cover. Just sayin’. I have read the book.


  8. 02/14/2013 at 3:52 PM

    I don’t know if they theorize in the book that the last pope will be the ‘False Prophet’, but the Malachy prophecy doesn’t lead one to believe that’s the case – it just says Petrus Romanus will lead his flock in tribulation and then the Judge (Jesus) will come. That could be the case even with an Islamic Antichrist paradigm.


  9. John Garris
    03/19/2013 at 10:46 AM

    Your rant has proven nothing except how misinformed you are.


  10. Irv
    06/06/2013 at 1:18 AM

    / Hello, ICA. Seen the following? I ran across it on the web. Any reaction? /


    [See if you can determine the rapture views held by these famous Christians of the past. Also note how the greatest Greek experts of all time interpreted Rev. 3:10.]

    Barnabas (40-100): “The final stumbling-block (or source of danger) approaches…for the whole [past] time of your faith will profit you nothing, unless now in this wicked time we also withstand coming sources of danger….That the Black One [Antichrist] may find no means of entrance…” (Epistle of Barnabas, 4).
    Clement of Rome (40-100): “…the Scripture also bears witness, saying, ‘Speedily will He come, and will not tarry’; and, ‘The Lord shall suddenly come [Matthew 24:30 coming] to His temple, even the Holy One, for whom ye look'” (I Clement, 23).
    Hermas (40-140): “Those, therefore, who continue steadfast, and are put through the fire [of the Great Tribulation that is yet to come], will be purified by means of it….Wherefore cease not speaking these things into the ears of the saints…” (The Pastor of Hermas, Vision 4).
    Polycarp (70-167): “He comes as the Judge of the living and the dead” (Epistle to the Philippians, II).
    Justin Martyr (100-168): “The man of apostasy [Antichrist], who speaks strange things against the Most High, shall venture to do unlawful deeds on the earth against us the Christians…” (Dialogue With Trypho, 110).
    Melito (100-170): “For with all his strength did the adversary assail us, even then giving a foretaste of his activity among us [during the Great Tribulation] which is to be without restraint…” (Discourse on the Resurrection, i, 8).
    Irenaeus (140-202): “And they [the ten kings who shall arise] shall lay Babylon waste, and burn her with fire, and shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the church to flight” (Against Heresies, V, 26).
    Tertullian (150-220): “The souls of the martyrs are taught to wait [Rev. 6]…that the beast Antichrist with his false prophet may wage war on the Church of God…” (On the Resurrection of the Flesh, 25).
    Hippolytus (160-240): “…the one thousand two hundred and three score days (the half of the week) during which the tyrant is to reign and persecute the Church, which flees from city to city, and seeks concealment in the wilderness among the mountains” (Treatise on Christ and Antichrist, 61).
    Cyprian (200-258): “The day of affliction has begun to hang over our heads, and the end of the world and the time of the Antichrist to draw near, so that we must all stand prepared for the battle…” (Epistle, 55, 1).
    Victorinus (240-303): “…the times of Antichrist, when all shall be injured” (Commentary on the Apocalypse of the Blessed John, VI, 5).
    Lactantius (240-330): “And power will be given him [Antichrist] to desolate the whole earth for forty-two months….When these things shall so happen, then the righteous and the followers of truth shall separate themselves from the wicked, and flee into solitudes” (Divine Institutes, VII, 17).
    Athanasius (293-373): “…they have not spared Thy servants, but are preparing the way for Antichrist” (History of the Arians, VIII, 79).
    Ephraim the Syrian (306-373): “Nothing remains then, except that the coming of our enemy, Antichrist, appear…” (Sermo Asceticus, I).
    Pseudo-Ephraem (4th century?): “…there is not other which remains, except the advent of the wicked one [Antichrist]…” (On the Last Times, the Antichrist etc., 2).
    Cyril of Jerusalem (315-386): “The Church declares to thee the things concerning Antichrist before they arrive…it is well that, knowing these things, thou shouldest make thyself ready beforehand” (Catechetical Lectures, 15, 9).
    Jerome (340-420): “I told you that Christ would not come unless Antichrist had come before” (Epistle 21).
    Chrysostom (345-407): “…the time of Antichrist…will be a sign of the coming of Christ…” (Homilies on First Thessalonians, 9).
    Augustine (354-430): “But he who reads this passage [Daniel 12], even half asleep, cannot fail to see that the kingdom of Antichrist shall fiercely, though for a short time, assail the Church…” (The City of God, XX, 23).
    Venerable Bede (673-735): “[The Church’s triumph will] follow the reign of Antichrist” (The Explanation of the Apocalypse, II, 8).
    Bernard of Clairvaux (1090-1153): “There remains only one thing—-that the demon of noonday [Antichrist] should appear, to seduce those who remain still in Christ…” (Sermons on the Song of Songs, 33, 16).
    Roger Bacon (1214-1274): “…because of future perils [for the Church] in the times of Antichrist…” (Opus Majus, II, p. 634).
    John Wycliffe (1320-1384): “Wherefore let us pray to God that he keep us in the hour of temptation, which is coming upon all the world, Rev. iii” (Writings of the Reverend and Learned John Wickliff, D.D., p. 155).
    Martin Luther (1483-1546): “[The book of Revelation] is intended as a revelation of things that are to happen in the future, and especially of tribulations and disasters for the Church…” (Works of Martin Luther, VI, p. 481).
    William Tyndale (1492-1536): “…antichrist preacheth not Peter’s doctrine (which is Christ’s gospel)…he compelleth all men with violence of sword” (Greenslade’s The Work of William Tindale, p. 127).
    Menno Simons (1496-1561): “…He will appear as a triumphant prince and a victorious king to bring judgment. Then will those who persecute us look upon Him…” (Complete Writings…, p. 622).
    John Calvin (1509-1564): “…we ought to follow in our inquiries after Antichrist, especially where such pride proceeds to a public desolation of the church” (Institutes, Vol. 2, p. 411).
    John Knox (1515-1572): “…the great love of God towards his Church, whom he pleased to forewarn of dangers to come, so many years before they come to pass…to wit, The man of sin, The Antichrist, The Whore of Babylon” (The History of the Reformation…, I, p. 76).
    John Fox (1516-1587): “…that second beast prophesied to come in the later time of the Church…to disturb the whole Church of Christ…” (Acts and Monuments, I).
    Roger Williams (1603-1683): “Antichrist…hath his prisons, to keep Christ Jesus and his members fast…” (The Bloody Tenent, of Persecution, p. 153).
    John Bunyan (1628-1688): “He comes in flaming fire [as Judge] and…the trump of God sounds in the air, the dead to hear his voice…” (The Last Four Things: Of Judgment).
    Daniel Whitby (1638-1726): “…after the Fall of Antichrist, there shall be such a glorious State of the Church…so shall this be the Church of Martyrs, and of those who had not received the Mark of the Beast…” (A Paraphrase and Commentary, p. 696).
    Increase Mather (1639-1723): “That part of the world [Europe] was to be principally the Seat of the Church of Christ during the Reign of Antichrist” (Ichabod, p. 64).
    Matthew Henry (1662-1714): “Those who keep the gospel in a time of peace shall be kept by Christ in an hour of temptation [Revelation 3:10]” (Commentary, VI, p. 1134).
    Cotton Mather (1663-1728): “…that New Jerusalem, whereto the Church is to be advanced, when the Mystical Babylon shall be fallen” (The Wonders of the Invisible World, p. 3).
    Jonathan Edwards (1703-1758): “…continuance of Antichrist’s reign [when the Church is persecuted] did not commence before the year of Christ 479…” (A History of the Work of Redemption, p. 217).
    John Wesley (1703-1791): “‘The stars shall…fall from heaven,’ (Revelation, vi. 13)….And then shall be heard the universal shout…followed by the ‘voice of the archangel,’…’and the trumpet of God’…(I Thessalonians iv. 16).” (The Works of the Rev. John Wesley, A.M., Vol. V, p. 173).
    George Whitefield (1714-1770): “…’while the bridegroom tarried,’ in the space of time which passeth between our Lord’s ascension and his coming again to judgment…” (Gillies’ Memoirs of Rev. George Whitefield, p. 471).
    David Brainerd (1718-1747): “…and I could not but hope, that the time was at hand, when Babylon the great would fall and rise no more” (Memoirs…, p. 326).
    Morgan Edwards (1722-1795): “[Antichrist] has hitherto assumed no higher title than ‘the vicar general of Christ on earth’…” (Two Academical Exercises etc., p. 20).
    John Newton (1725-1807): “‘Fear not temptation’s fiery day, for I will be thy strength and stay. Thou hast my promise, hold it fast, the trying hour [Revelation 3:10] will soon be past'” (The Works of the Rev. John Newton, Vol. II, p. 152).
    Adam Clarke (1762-1832): “We which are alive, and remain…he [Paul] is speaking of the genuine Christians which shall be found on earth when Christ comes to judgment” (Commentary, Vol. VI, p. 550).
    Charles G. Finney (1792-1875): “Christ represents it as impossible to deceive the elect. Matt. 24:24. We have seen that the elect unto salvation includes all true christians.” (Lectures on Systematic Theology, p. 606).
    Charles Hodge (1797-1878): “…the fate of his Church here on earth…is the burden of the Apocalypse” (Systematic Theology, Vol. III, p. 827).
    Albert Barnes (1798-1870): “…he will keep them in the future trials that shall come upon the world [Revelation 3:10]” (Notes on the New Testament, p. 94).
    George Mueller (1805-1898): “The Scripture declares plainly that the Lord Jesus will not come until the Apostacy shall have taken place, and the man of sin…shall have been revealed…” (Mrs. Mueller’s Missionary Tours and Labours, p. 148).
    Benjamin W. Newton (1805-1898): “The Secret Rapture was bad enough, but this [John Darby’s equally novel idea that the book of Matthew is on ‘Jewish’ ground instead of ‘Church’ ground] was worse” (unpublished Fry MS. and F. Roy Coad’s Prophetic Developments, p. 29).
    R. C. Trench (1807-1886): “…the Philadelphian church…to be kept in temptation, not to be exempted from temptation…” (Seven Churches of Asia, pp. 183-184).
    Carl F. Keil (1807-1888): “…the persecution of the last enemy Antichrist against the church of the Lord…” (Biblical Commentary, Vol. XXXIV, p. 503).
    Henry Alford (1810-1871): “Christ is on His way to this earth [I Thessalonians 4:17]…” (The New Testament for English Readers, Vol. II, p. 491).
    John Lillie (1812-1867): “In his [Antichrist’s] days was to be the great—-the last—-tribulation of the Church” (Second Thessalonians, pp. 537-538).
    F. L. Godet (1812-1900): “The gathering of the elect [Matthew24:31]…is mentioned by St. Paul, 1 Thess. 4:16, 17, 2 Thess. 2:1…” (Commentary on Luke, p. 452).
    Robert Murray McCheyne (1813-1842): “Christians must have ‘great tribulation’; but they come out of it” (Bonar’s Memoirs of McCheyne, p. 26).
    S. P. Tregelles (1813-1875): “The Scripture teaches the Church to wait for the manifestation of Christ. The secret theory bids us to expect a coming before any such manifestation” (The Hope of Christ’s Second Coming, p. 71).
    Franz Delitzsch (1813-1890): “…the approaching day is the day of Christ, who comes…for final judgment” (Commentary on Hebrews, Vol. II, p. 183).
    C. J. Ellicott (1819-1905): “[I Thessalonians 4:17] ‘to meet the Lord,’ as He is coming down to earth…” (Commentary on the Thessalonian Epistles, p. 66).
    Nathaniel West (1826-1906): “[The Pre-Trib Rapture] is built on a postulate, vicious in logic, violent in exegesis, contrary to experience, repudiated by the early Church, contradicted by the testimony of eighteen hundred years…and condemned by all the standard scholars of every age” (The Apostle Paul and the “Any Moment” Theory, p. 30).
    Alexander Maclaren (1826-1910): “He will keep us in the midst of, and also from, the hour of temptation [Revelation 3:10]” (The Epistles of John, Jude and the Book of Revelation, p. 266).
    J. H. Thayer (1828-1901): “To keep [Revelation 3:10]:…by guarding, to cause one to escape in safety out of” (A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, p. 622).
    Adolph Saphir (1831-1891): “…the advent of the Messiah…to which both the believing synagogue and the church of the Lord Jesus Christ are looking…” (The Epistle to the Hebrews, Vol. I, p. 96).
    M. R. Vincent (1834-1922): “The preposition [‘from’] implies, not a keeping from temptation, but a keeping in temptation [Revelation 3:10]…” (Word Studies…, p. 466).
    William J. Erdman (1834-1923): “…by the ‘saints’ seen as future by Daniel and by John are meant ‘the Church’…” (Notes on the Book of Revelation, p. 47).
    H. Grattan Guinness (1835-1910): “…the Church is on earth during the action of the Apocalypse…” (The Approaching End of the Age, p. 136).
    H. B. Swete (1835-1917): “The promise [of Revelation 3:10], as Bede says, is ‘not indeed of your being immune from adversity, but of not being overcome by it'” (The Apocalypse of St. John, p. 56).
    William G. Moorehead (1836-1914): “…the last days of the Church’s deepest humiliation when Antichrist is practicing and prospering (Dan. viii:12)…” (Outline Studies in the New Testament, p. 123).
    A. H. Strong (1836-1921): “The final coming of Christ is referred to in: Mat. 24:30…[and] I Thess. 4:16…” (Systematic Theology, p. 567).
    Theodor Zahn (1838-1933): “…He will preserve…at the time of the great temptation [Revelation 3:10]…” (Zahn-Kommentar, I, p. 305).
    I. T. Beckwith (1843-1936): “The Philadelphians…are promised that they shall be carried in safety through the great trial [Revelation 3:10], they shall not fall” (The Apocalypse of John, p. 484).
    Robert Cameron (1845-1922): “The Coming for, and the Coming with, the saints, still persists, although it involves a manifest contradiction, viz., two Second Comings which is an absurdity” (Scriptural Truth About the Lord’s Return, p. 16).
    B. B. Warfield (1851-1921): “…He shall come again to judgment…to close the dispensation of grace…” (Biblical Doctrines, p. 639).
    David Baron (1855-1926): “(Tit. ii. 13), for then the hope as regards the church, and Israel, and the world, will be fully realised” (Visions of Zechariah, p. 323).
    Philip Mauro (1859-1952): “…’dispensational teaching’ is modernistic in the strictest sense…it first came into existence within the memory of persons now living…” (The Gospel of the Kingdom, p. 8).
    A. T. Robertson (1863-1934): “In Rev. 3:10…we seem to have the picture of general temptation with the preservation of the saints” (A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research, p. 596).
    R. C. H. Lenski (1864-1936): “…it [Philadelphia] shall be kept untouched and unharmed by the impending dangers [Revelation 3:10]” (The Interpretation of St. John’s Revelation, pp. 146-146).
    William E. Biederwolf (1867-1939): “Godet, like most pre-millennial expositors, makes no provision for any period between the Lord’s coming for His saints and His coming with them…” (The Second Coming Bible, p. 385).
    Alexander Reese (1881-1969): “…we quite deliberately reject the dispensational theories, propounded first about 1830…” (The Approaching Advent of Christ, p. 293).
    Norman S. MacPherson (1899-1980): “…the view that the Church will not pass into or through the Great Tribulation is based largely upon arbitrary interpretations of obscure passages” (Triumph Through Tribulation, p. 5).


  11. L. Allman
    07/28/2013 at 12:44 PM

    The antichrist and false prophet will not be revealed “as such” until after the Rapture. Of course they will be present prior to the rapture because they are adults taking over the world! God knows who they are but does not reveal them until we are gone. That’s not hard to comprehend or understand.


  12. ICA
    07/28/2013 at 3:01 PM

    L. Allman, “The antichrist and false prophet will not be revealed ‘as such’ until after the Rapture.”

    Hi L. Allman, thank you for your comment. May I ask where you believe that teaching is found in Scripture? According to the Apostle Paul, our gathering to Christ is the Day of the Lord in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3. Here are his words slightly condensed:

    “concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him … [do not] become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy … saying that the day of the Lord has already come … for [that day will not come] until the [apostasia] occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed …”

    Paul ties in the Day of the Lord with our gathering to Christ. He is saying that our gathering (rapture) will not happen until the falling away (apostasy) happens and the man of sin is revealed first. But, in an effort to support a pre-trib presupposition, some teachers are now trying to convince us that the “apostasia” is the departure of the Church, effectively saying that the gathering (rapture) will not happen until the departure (rapture) happens first. Obviously, that idea is logically (and textually) incoherent to say the least.

    Paul uses the word “episynagōgē” (G1997) here when referring to the rapture as “our gathering”, which is from the word “episynagō” (G1996) — the exact word that Christ used in Matthew 24:31 regarding the gathering of the elect immediately after the tribulation. In explaining the rapture, Paul is in fact referring directly to Christ’s own teaching in the Olivet Discourse and connects the “watching” for the rapture with Jesus’ instructions for His disciples to be watching for His coming “immediately after the tribulation“. In other words, Paul is teaching us that the rapture is post-trib, not pre-trib.

    Some try to suggest that the Day of the Lord is the time of Antichrist’s revealing. Scripturally speaking, however, this is impossible because the Day of the Lord occurs at the Second Coming of Christ. The pre-trib position strains to stretch the Day of the Lord to include the entire “tribulaton”, but there are passages that absolutely forbid the Day of the Lord from overlapping into the tribulation. The two are mutually exclusive.

    Here are five examples:

    1. Throughout the Old Testament, very specific “celestial signs” are associated with the coming of the Day of the Lord. The darkening of the sun and moon will usher in that day (Isa 13:9,10, Isa 24:19-23, Joel 3:13-15). Here is one example.

    Joel 2:31 “The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.

    Matt 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.”

    These verses establish a clear sequence of events. They place the cosmic signs, the darkening of the sun and moon, between the end of the tribulation and the beginning of the Day of the Lord. This absolutely forbids any overlapping of the tribulation into the Day of the Lord. They are distinct events. No other interpretation is possible without purposefully twisting these passages.

    2. The very first time the Day of the Lord is mentioned in the Bible, the text clearly forbids associating it with the tribulation. Isaiah describes the “Day of the Lord” as follows:

    Isa 2:10-19, “Enter into the rock, and hide in the dust, From the terror of the LORD And the glory of His majesty. The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, The haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, And the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day. For the day of the LORD of hosts Shall come upon everything proud and lofty, Upon everything lifted up — And it shall be brought low — Upon all the cedars of Lebanon that are high and lifted up, And upon all the oaks of Bashan; Upon all the high mountains, And upon all the hills that are lifted up; Upon every high tower, And upon every fortified wall; Upon all the ships of Tarshish, And upon all the beautiful sloops. The loftiness of man shall be bowed down, And the haughtiness of men shall be brought low; The LORD alone will be exalted in that day, But the idols He shall utterly abolish. They shall go into the holes of the rocks, And into the caves of the earth, From the terror of the LORD And the glory of His majesty, When He arises to shake the earth mightily.”

    Twice these verses indicate that the Lord alone will be exalted in the Day of the Lord. This is an exclusive statement. No one else can be exalted or worshipped during the Day of the Lord. Yet, during the tribulation, Antichrist is worshipped as God (Rev 13:3-8,14, 2 Thess 2:4) and his image will be worshipped as well. Isaiah’s statements about the Lord alone being exalted, and the idols being abolished during the Day of the Lord forbids any overlapping with the tribulation and reign of Antichrist.

    3. Zechariah 14:7 indicates that the Day of the Lord may just be one literal day. The Hebrew text says “one day”:

    Zechariah 14:1,7, “Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee… But it shall be one day (echad yowm) which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, [that] at evening time it shall be light.”

    Also see Isaiah 10:17:

    Isa 10:17, “And the light of Israel shall be for a fire, and his Holy One for a flame: and it shall burn and devour his thorns and his briers in one day (echad yowm)“.

    4. In Isaiah 13:9, Joel 2:1 and Zech 14:1 we read in each of these verses that “the Day of the Lord COMETH”, and in each verse the text immediately begins to describe the battle of Armageddon. The word “cometh” or “at hand” is the Hebrew word “bow” and it means “to come” or “arrive”, and it implies the beginning of the Day of the Lord. In each case the arrival of the Day of the Lord brings about the battle of Armageddon.

    5. Joel 3:9-17 describes the gathering of the armies of the nations around Jerusalem for the battle of Armageddon, the cosmic signs, and the coming of the Lord. After the armies are gathered, but before the cosmic signs, Joel wrote that the Day of the Lord is “near.” The Hebrew word means “at hand,” “imminent,” or “next in sequence”. The Day of the Lord must begin after the armies of the nations are gathered for the battle, which occurs at the end of the tribulation, according to Rev 16:13-16.

    The pre-trib position tries to stretch the Day of the Lord into the tribulation, but no one has ever provided any biblical requirement for doing so — because it cannot be done. In fact, none of the Old Testament passages support this pre-trib idea that Antichrist and the false prophet can only be revealed after the Rapture, as we can see above.

    For further reading I would highly encourage you to take a moment and read through the short article titled: The Revelation of Jesus Christ and the Rapture of the Church.

    Let me know if you have any question. God bless …


  13. 07/29/2013 at 3:43 PM


    From these two passages

    Then the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom became darkened; and they gnawed their tongues because of pain, and they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores; and they did not repent of their deeds.


    And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs; for they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty. (“Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.”) And they gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Har-Magedon.

    in Rev 16, it appears that the bowls can’t be placed post-tribulationally–they also have to be before “the Day of YHWH” (Actually what the Hebrew is saying). So my operational (at least until now) theory that

    The Day of Trumpets = the Day of YHWH/return of Christ/rapture of the church/defeat of the Antichrist/beast/false prophet
    Time between Day of Trumpets/Day of Atonement = the bowls judgment on the beast/false prophet kingdom (i.e., Islam and all who deny YHWH the Trinity and His salvation)
    Day of Atonement = Sheep and Goats/determination of who enters the Millennium
    Feast of Tabernacles = start of Millennial kingdom

    is suspect because Bowls 5 & 6 must be PRE – Day of YHWH, right?

    I believe strongly that the 3 remaining Feasts must play a part, on the actual days, of Christ’s return, but can’t seem to fit the parts together with other scriptures.

    Do you have a solution?


  14. ICA
    07/29/2013 at 4:17 PM

    The 5th and 6th trumpet judgments as well as the bowls (“trumpets” are the cause, “bowls” are the effect) would need to begin before the physical return of Messiah / Day of the Lord. Revelation 16:12-14 would be the bowl (effect) of the trumpet (cause). If we interpret the 5th and 6th trumpet causation as already having happened and continuing to happen as we speak (the rise of Islamic hordes right up until the Second Advent) the effect of the 5th and 6th bowls will be ready/complete at the appointed time just prior to Christ’s return. What takes place at the Feast of Trumpets is the 7th trump with the 7th bowl — the “orge” wrath of God (cf. Rev 16:19) — likely taking place between the Feast of Trumpets and the Day of Atonement.


  15. 07/29/2013 at 6:42 PM

    You now see the DOTL as likely landing on Yom Teruah then… I know we had discussed Yom Kippur at one point, but understandings evolve as we study and are granted insight. So then 10 days of orge wrath (or 7-8, after the end of Teruah and before the beginning of Kippur, the sheltering of the bride/the wedding feast ala Isa 26:20 and Mt 25:10??)

    Rev 19:7 is the wedding feast, but it occurs before the Rev 19:11 coming of Christ–perhaps these are not chronological?


  16. ICA
    07/29/2013 at 11:05 PM

    At this point (and it could change the more in depth it is studied), Yom Teruah (Day of the Awakening Blast) seems the most likely day of the gathering with Christ in the air and Yom Kippur being the physical “coming down” to escort Him into Jerusalem (apantesis) where He touches His feet upon the Mount of Olives. As of right now I see the “orge” wrath being somewhere in between these two (Days of Awe).

    Revelation 19:7 and 19:11 may not be sequential. From Revelation 19:11-21 John appears to shift focus upon the “Babylonian Harlot’s” judgment that was already mentioned briefly in 19:2-3 as having been judged previously. In 19:2-3 judgments and war appear to be past tense, but in 19:11-21 they are in the process of being completed. John’s Semitic writing style often returns to an event to outline or delineate the specific event in greater detail, which is what he may be doing here once again.


  17. Willard
    07/30/2013 at 2:03 AM

    If God’s wrath is as severe as the Bible says it is then the earth itself will only be able to handle ten days of wrath – I agree with Kurt and ICA, I think that the wrath of God will be from Yom Teruah to Yom Kippur.


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