Home > Radical Islam, Theology and Eschatology, Wars and Rumors of War > Six Reasons Why Gog Is The Antichrist / Beast

Six Reasons Why Gog Is The Antichrist / Beast


By Joel Richardson – “For years, students of Bible prophecy have been taught that ‘Gog,’ spoken of in Ezekiel 38 and 39, cannot be the same as the Antichrist/Beast spoken of in the New Testament. Among the reasons set forth to argue that the two cannot be the same, none carry any weight.

In fact, any examination of the text will establish that the two are, in fact, one and the same individual. If this is the case, however, this changes everything within the world of popular biblical prophecy. If it can be shown that Gog is the Antichrist/Beast, then it is also clear that the Antichrist and his armies are from the Middle East and not Europe, as is popularly taught. But more importantly, it means that until Jesus returns, Islam is not going away. Instead of being a system of belief that is about to be ‘eliminated,’ as so many actually claim, Islam represents the single greatest challenge that the church will ever face. What then are some of the reasons to view Gog and the Antichrist/Beast as one and the same character?

The answer lies in the specific results of the destruction of Gog and his armies as detailed within the Scriptures. When we turn to Ezekiel 38 and 39, we find that as a direct result of the destruction of Gog and his armies, the following six events take place:

God’s name will never again be profaned (Ezekiel 39:7)

I will send fire on Magog and on those who live in safety in the coastlands, and they will know that I am the LORD. I will make known my holy name among my people Israel. I will no longer let my holy name be profaned, and the nations will know that I the LORD am the Holy One in Israel. It is coming! It will surely take place, declares the Sovereign LORD. This is the day I have spoken of. – Ezekiel 39:6-8

How could it be said that from that day forward, the LORD will “no longer let [His] holy name be profaned” literally right before the Antichrist and his worldwide movement of blasphemy erupt throughout the earth? Not only would this make the LORD a liar, but also impotent. Clearly, when the LORD says that His name would no longer be profaned or blasphemed, it is speaks of the time when the Antichrist and his blasphemous hoards are silenced, at the end of his brief reign of arrogance and profanity.

The surviving Gentile nations will come to a saving knowledge of God (Ezekiel 39:6-7)

In keeping with the LORD’s many promises to someday bring the many Gentile nations of the earth fully to Himself (Isaiah 11:9, 60:14, Psalm 22:27), as a direct result of the destruction of Gog and his armies, the LORD says that, ‘the nations shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel’ (Ezekiel 39:7). Some have attempted to diminish the significance of this statement, treating it as a shallow intellectual acknowledgment of God. But this doesn’t nearly do justice to language of the passage. How can it be said that the nations come to know and acknowledge that the LORD God, the Holy One in Israel, is the one and only true God, at a time immediately before they all come together to blaspheme His name, invade His land and kill His people? This simply wouldn’t make any sense. This passage only makes sense if it occurs at the end of the great tribulation, not at the beginning.

The captives of Israel will be delivered (Ezekiel 39:25-28)

After the destruction of Gog and his armies, those Jews who were previously held captive among the Gentile nations will be all delivered – every single last one. According to the text, every living Jew will return to the land of Israel. There is simply no way that this event could be placed just before the time when Jesus said many would ‘fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations’. (Luke 21:24). Zechariah says that half of the city of Jerusalem will be ‘exiled’ (14:2). So when God says that not a single Jewish captive will remain in exile anymore, that all will be returned from that day forward, this can only be a reference to the time when Jesus returns and delivers the Jewish captives from among the Gentile nations.

God will pour out His Spirit on Israel (Ezekiel 39:29)

Not only will the LORD deliver the Jewish captives from among the nations, but He also promises to pour out His Spirit on them. Again, this occurs immediately after the destruction of Gog and his hoards. A parallel passage is found in Isaiah, who says:

“A Redeemer will come to Zion, and to those who turn from transgression in Jacob,” declares the LORD. “As for Me, this is My covenant with them,” says the LORD: “My Spirit which is upon you, and My words which I have put in your mouth shall not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your offspring, nor from the mouth of your offspring’s offspring,” says the LORD, “from now and forever.” – Isaiah 59:19-20

In very similar language, other prophets also spoke of this final outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the Jewish people in the context of the return of the Messiah (cf. Zech 12:10). Any claim that the grand outpouring of the Spirit of God on Israel precedes the coming of the Antichrist results in ‘prophecy chaos.’ The only way that this event can be reconciled with the Scriptures is if it occurs at the end of the great tribulation when the Messiah returns.

The survivors of Israel will come to know the LORD forevermore (39:22)

In accordance with the LORD pouring out His Holy Spirit on the whole house of Israel, Ezekiel also states that after the destruction of Gog and his hoards, the long awaited national salvation and redemption of all Israel will finally take place.

John the Apostle spoke of what it means to know the LORD: ‘And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent’ (John 17:3). Any claim that the national salvation of Israel, their coming to know the LORD forevermore, ‘from that day forward’ takes place several years before the return of the Messiah is simply not possible. The only way one can do this passage any justice and see it align with numerous other biblical passages is to see it as the grand capstone of the final seven years. According to the Scriptures, the salvation of Israel will occur when their Messiah arrives.

Israel will dwell securely in their land forevermore (Ezekiel 39:26-28)

Finally, as a direct result of the destruction of Ezekiel and his invading armies, all of Israel is fully restored to their land forevermore. As Old Testament scholar Daniel L. Block comments concerning this passage:

Ezekiel’s declaration that not a single individual will be left behind when Yahweh restores his people is without parallel in the OT. Yahweh’s restoration is not only total, however, it is permanent. He promises never again to hide his face from his people.

How anyone can place this event before the time when the Antichrist would invade Israel, trample upon Jerusalem and many of its inhabitants is simply beyond explanation. The only way that these events can be properly understood is in the context of the return of Jesus and the destruction of all of the enemies of the LORD and His people.

Because all of these descriptions can only be applied to the time of the return of Jesus and the establishment of His messianic kingdom, it is impossible that Gog and his armies are anything other than the Antichrist and his armies. In my new book, ‘Mideast Beast: The Scriptural Case For an Islamic Antichrist,’ not only is this prophecy examined in careful detail, but also the massive prophetic implications of Gog as the Antichrist. As I said, within the world of popular biblical prophecy, this absolutely changes everything. It is time to begin working through the dramatic implications.” Source – WND.

Related: What is the War of Gog-Magog?

Joseph Farah, Longtime Friend Of Hal Lindsey, Discusses Gog-Magog And How He Came To Understand The Islamic End-Time Paradigm

  1. John
    08/26/2012 at 9:59 PM

    Can someone explain how if Gog is the antichrist, that he dies in battle (and is buried) per Ezek 39:11 but somehow is revived again, only to be cast alive into the lake of fire later in Rev 19:20. ??

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    • Anonymous
      09/01/2012 at 11:50 AM

      Read THE SIGN by Robert Van Kampen, he explains this, John.

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  2. ICA
    08/26/2012 at 10:25 PM

    John, “Can someone explain how if Gog is the antichrist, that he dies in battle (and is buried) per Ezek 39:11 but somehow is revived again, only to be cast alive into the lake of fire later in Rev 19:20. ??”

    Hi John, thank you for your question. First, assuming that Revelation 19:20 is speaking about the Antichrist, what destroys the AC? Is it the brightness of Christ’s coming according to 2 Thess 2:8, or Christ having the Antichrist captured alive and cast into the lake of fire per Rev 19:20? I say assuming because of the fact that it is also possible that John in Revelation 19:20 isn’t referring to any Antichrist personage at all. The text only speaks about the beast and the false prophet, which could very easily be speaking about the kingdom/empire/system of Antichrist (see Revelation 13) and the false prophet.

    Secondly, would you not agree that even if Antichrist’s body were slain, that his spirit would still be very much alive? Would it not be his spirit that is cast alive into the lake of fire? Or is it your belief that the body and soul of Antichrist will both be annihilated? (To which I would ask, Where would the justice be in that?) I see no conflict between Ezekiel’s description, Daniel’s description, Paul’s description and John’s description. They would all be describing the same event through their own lens and camera angle: the end of Antichrist.

    We should keep in mind that just because certain details are left out of Ezekiel’s description does not mean that he was describing something entirely different. For example, in 2 Thess 2:1 we agree that Paul is talking about our “rapture”, despite the fact that important details such as Christ descending from Heaven, the last trump, the resurrection of the dead, etc. are omitted. Not every last detail needs to be provided. Likewise, Ezekiel simply says that Gog comes to his end in Israel. Daniel similarly also says that he comes to his end “and none shall help him” (Dan 11:45). Not every last detail of the AC needs to be included in Ezekiel’s description in order for us to know that the leader of the Magog armies is Antichrist.

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  3. John
    08/27/2012 at 12:58 AM

    So you’re saying that the Beast = Islam, while the Anti-Christ = False Prophet. Okay, I can see that.

    Looking back at Daniel, it would seem to fit that the 4th beast of Dan 7:7 = Islam and the little horn of Dan 7:8 would be the Anti-Christ/False Prophet.

    Next, the first beast of Rev 13:1-4 would be Islam and the second beast of Rev 13:11-15 would be the AntiChrist/False Prophet. Rev 13:18 (the number of the beast) would be referring to the second beast, the AntiChrist/False Prophet.

    And lastly, the “lawless one” of 2 Thess 2 would be the 2nd beast of Rev 13:18, which is also the AntiChrist/False Prophet.

    The “lawless one” AntiChrist/False Prophet is slayed (GK anaireō, taken away violently) by Jesus at His coming, but this violent removal from earth is just part of his demise. Revelations adds further detail, in that he is placed alive in the lake of fire.

    So far, I think we’ve resolved everything, except Gog.

    Gog is a prince, or some leader of sorts (39:1),
    personal pronoun “you” is used in (39:4), indicating a person,
    animals will consume Gog (39:4), (how can animals consume a religious/political system?)
    will die on an open field (39:5), (how does a religious/political system die on a field?)
    will be buried (39:11).
    His “horde” or followers (army?) will be buried with him (39:11)
    a separate burial ground for Gog and his army (39:11)
    burial takes 7 months to “cleanse the land” (from nuclear fall out?) (39:12)
    people who pass through the land will die (39:14)
    specially designated people will do the burying (39:14)

    Vss 39:11-15 sound like the after-effects of a low altitude nuclear explosion to me.

    In any case, Gog sounds very much like a person with an army who dies and is buried, not a religious/political system.

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  4. John
    08/27/2012 at 1:06 AM

    Also, Gog’s has a mind that devises an evil plan (38:10)

    Also, Gog’s incursion into Israel from the north does not seem to be motivated in the same way that the AntiChrist is motivated by hatred against Israel and Christians. There is no mention of Gog seeking to capture Jerusalem, to deface Jewish or Christian places of worship or even to make himself out to be God. Rather, Ezek 38 seems to show that Gog is a thug with a conglomeration of Islamic armies assisting him in basically a plunder battle, seeking territory and goods. Vs 38:12 “to capture spoil and seize plunder”

    What are your thoughts on this?

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  5. ICA
    08/27/2012 at 2:49 PM

    John, “So you’re saying that the Beast = Islam, while the Anti-Christ = False Prophet.”

    Hi John, I’m saying that the Beast referred to in Revelation 19:20 could simply be the kingdom/empire/system of Antichrist, and not the Antichrist himself. I view Antichrist as separate from the False Prophet.

    John, “Looking back at Daniel, it would seem to fit that the 4th beast of Dan 7:7 = Islam and the little horn of Dan 7:8 would be the Anti-Christ/False Prophet.”

    I agree that the fourth beast is the Islamic empire. The little horn could be the Antichrist, if he is a man. I’m leaving the possibility open that Antichrist may not be a man — though this is the general consensus — but could also be something else such as the system of Islamic fundamentalism that we’re now witnessing rise up in the Islamic world and/or the spiritual force behind it (cf. 1 John 4:3).

    John, “Next, the first beast of Rev 13:1-4 would be Islam and the second beast of Rev 13:11-15 would be the AntiChrist/False Prophet. Rev 13:18 (the number of the beast) would be referring to the second beast, the AntiChrist/False Prophet.”

    The first Beast in my view is the history of kingdoms/empires that controlled Israel/the Middle East throughout history. The 7th head of the first Beast was the Islamic (Ottoman) Empire, which is revived. We are witnessing today an Islamic revival in the Muslim world that is reminiscent of the might and power of the Ottoman Empire. The revival of the 7th head seems to be the focus or thrust of John’s vision in Rev 13:3-10. Due to this Islamic revival, John then witnesses “another beast” rising up. In my view, this could be either a reawakening of fundamentalism within Sunni and Shia Islam and their efforts to implement the Islamic Caliphate to bring about their “savior of humanity”, or it could be the rise of the Antichrist and False Prophet.

    Regarding the “number” of the beast and it being a man’s number, consider the following. The word for “number” in Revelation 13:18 is “arithmos” and it does not simply mean number in the sense that we often envision it. This word is used a total of 18 times in the New Testament and is translated as “number” each time, but what is significant here is the fact that every other time “arithmos” is used it is always referring to a group of people or beings and has nothing to do with mathematics. Hermeneutically, this suggests that the best way to properly understand the “number of the Beast” is in terms of the “multitude of the Beast”, which is to say, the people of the Beast. Here are all of the verses that use “arithmos”:

    Luke 22:3, “Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.” <– an amount/multitude/number of people.

    John 6:10, “And Jesus said, Make the men sit down. Now there was much grass in the place. So the men sat down, in number about five thousand.” <– an amount/multitude/number of people.

    Acts 4:4, “Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand.” <– an amount/multitude/number of people.

    Acts 5:36, “For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought.” <– an amount/multitude/number of people.

    Acts 6:7, “And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.” <– an amount/multitude/number of people.

    Acts 11:21, “And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed, and turned unto the Lord.” <– an amount/multitude/number of people.

    Acts 16:5, “And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily.” <– an amount/multitude/number of people.

    Romans 9:27, “Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:” <– an amount/multitude/number of people.

    Revelation 5:11, “And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;” <– an amount/multitude/number of living beings.

    Revelation 7:4, “And I heard the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.” <– an amount/multitude/number of people.

    Revelation 9:16, “And the number of the army of the horsemen [were] two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.” <– an amount/multitude/number of people.

    Revelation 20:8, “And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea.” <– an amount/multitude/number of people.

    Revelation 13:17-18, “And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six.”

    Revelation 15:2, “And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, [and] over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.”

    If we, in light of Revelation 15:2, are said to have victory over the “arithmos of his name”, how else could we reasonably conclude that “arithmos” could mean anything other than “multitude”?

    In light of every verse above, it only stands to reason that the “number” (arithmos) of the Beast would therefore also be referring to an amount/multitude/number of people to which the ekklesia will have victory over. Keep in mind that John was told to write what he saw, and what he saw was something that apparently *resembled* “chi-xi-stigma”. But is “chi-xi-stigma” *what* he saw? If that’s what it was, why would he say, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, that more knowledge would be needed in order to “reckon” what it was?

    This is significant because it therefore means that the thrust of the Greek text is better understood as “the multitude of the beast: for it is the multitude of a man.” But what man would that be? There is nothing in the text telling us that the man referred to here must be the end-of-days Antichrist. In fact, consider the following — in order to convert to Islam one must recite the Islamic creed, called the Shahada, by declaring, “There is no god but Allah, and Mohammed is the messenger of Allah.” Mohammed and Islam cannot be separated. They are united together like Jesus and Christianity. Without Jesus, there is no Christianity. Without the man Mohammed, there is no Islam. Because of this very fact it therefore stands to reason that the multitude of a man refers not to an eschatonic Antichrist, but rather to Mohammed, the founder and prophet of Islam. If one cannot acknowledge Mohammed, they cannot become a Muslim. Thus, the multitude of the Beast, which is the multitude of a man, are they who receive the Mark of the Beast upon their ‘foreheads’ and are therefore destined for destruction. This is the direct antithesis or contradistinction to the great multitude, which is the multitude of the Lamb (Rev 7:17, 14:4) that receives the seal of God upon their foreheads (Rev 7:3, 14:1) and are therefore destined for redemption (cf Eph 4:30). One multitude is lost and separated from Christ forever (Rev 14:11), the other is saved and received unto Christ (Rev 7:15-17, 19:6-9, 22:2-5) to be with Him always.

    John, “And lastly, the 'lawless one' of 2 Thess 2 would be the 2nd beast of Rev 13:18, which is also the AntiChrist/False Prophet.”

    The "lawless one" or "man of sin" could be the second Beast, yes. As I wrote in the following article, however:

    “There is also one final point that needs to be considered as well with respect to the “man of sin”. We should not discount the possibility that the “man of sin” may not be pointing to one single person as it were, though the general consensus is precisely that, but could instead be pointing to one single entity. The ekklesia of God is comprised of a great multitude of believing Jews and Gentiles created as “one new man” in Christ who are marked by God (Eph. 2:15, Rev. 14:1) and described by John in Revelation 7 as the “multitude of the lamb“, ie, Jesus Christ. Conversely, the “man of sin” (2 Thess 2:3) could therefore be its direct antithesis comprised of those who have the Mark of the Beast and described by John in Revelation 13 as the “multitude of a man“, ie, the “prophet Mohammed”. If this is the case, then we may be even closer to the cusp of prophetic fulfillment than many of us realize.”

    John, “The 'lawless one' AntiChrist/False Prophet is slayed (GK anaireō, taken away violently) by Jesus at His coming, but this violent removal from earth is just part of his demise. Revelations adds further detail, in that he is placed alive in the lake of fire.”

    Again, Revelation 19:20 may not be referring to the second Beast, if this is a man. It could be referring to the revived head of the first Islamic Beast that John describes in Revelation 13:3-10. Assuming that Rev 19:20 is referring to Antichrist the man, there is no denying the fact that his spirit would still be very much alive, and that it would be his spirit that is cast alive into the lake of fire. Satan is a non-corporeal being. He is spiritual and does not have a physical body. But even Satan is described as being cast (obviously alive) into the lake of fire in Revelation 20:10.

    John, “There is no mention of Gog seeking to capture Jerusalem, to deface Jewish or Christian places of worship or even to make himself out to be God.”

    That isn’t Ezekiel’s focus. This is again an example of describing the same war through a different lens.

    John, “Rather, Ezek 38 seems to show that Gog is a thug with a conglomeration of Islamic armies assisting him in basically a plunder battle, seeking territory and goods. Vs 38:12 ‘to capture spoil and seize plunder'”

    Antichrist does the same thing. See Daniel 11:24,39 and Isaiah 10:5-7.

    John, “In any case, Gog sounds very much like a person with an army who dies and is buried, not a religious/political system.”

    Ezekiel describes what Gog says, what Gog does, and the aftermath of Gog’s war, not the spiritual/political backdrop behind Gog's motives. There is nothing in the text negating any religious/political system whatsoever that spurs Gog into action. Ezekiel does, however, describe the region that Gog controls and lists some of the nations who are with him. It just so happens that these nations are today all Islamic nations. In addition, Ezekiel also writes that these nations will seek to come up against Israel and its people, to loot and plunder, something that the Islamic world openly acknowledges they would do the moment they believe they’ve been given the “divine” opportunity.

    Having said that, Gog very much sounds like a person, I agree, and I hold this position as well. Ezekiel calls him "the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal" in 38:1 (the region of modern day Turkey) who will be buried in Israel (39:11). But let us not ignore the possibility that Ezekiel could also be describing a spiritual entity who exercises authority over this region, similar to how Daniel describes the spiritual forces exercising authority over Iran and Greece as "the prince of Persia" and "the prince of Javan (Grecia)" in Daniel 10:20. Incidentally, in Revelation 2:13 Jesus says that the region of modern day Turkey (which is where Gog is “the chief prince” of) is “where Satan has his throne”. So it is conceivable that Gog being buried in the land of Israel simply refers to the physical destruction and burial of the armies he brings against Israel. Even the casting down of Satan is described using physical terms whereby he is "brought down to the grave, to the depths of the pit" (Isa 14:15), even though Satan is non-corporeal. There is much more going on behind the curtain of this physical world than meets the eye.

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  6. John
    08/27/2012 at 5:19 PM

    ICA, well I found our comments interesting. Of course we should not be too dogmatic about such things when our understanding is not complete. I agree with your last statement for sure, that

    “there is much more going on behind the curtain of this physical world than meets the eye”,

    I’m glad that we found agreement in some areas, and those that remain in question will be exciting for each to discover with more certainty as more prophetic knowledge is unsealed.

    A couple comments….

    You said “I’m saying that the Beast referred to in Revelation 19:20 could simply be the kingdom/empire/system of Antichrist, and not the Antichrist himself.”

    Either this beast is the beast of Rev 13:1 that “comes up out of the sea” having 10 horns and 7 heads, or it is the second beast of Rev 13:11 that “comes up out of the earth”, with two horns.

    If the first beast is Islam, then the second beast would have to be a being, either a human, a demon manipulated human, or an actual demon in human disguise (for we know satan can appear as an angel of light, why not other demonic creatures?). If the second beast is a being of some type, then that would explain his rather human characteristics, including the number (or multitude) of a “man”.

    I found your assessment of the “number” (arithmos – multitude) of the beast to be very interesting. I will do more research on that. Thank you. So far, it seems to fit, Islam happens to be 1/4 to 1/5 of the world’s population, quite a multitude. Also significant that there are probably no less than a couple million potential Islamist martyrs ready to be activated around the world. Translated videos of recent comments from Morsi’s camp suggest there are plenty of motivated martyer-to-be’s just in Egypt alone. How much more in places like Iran, Turkey, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, and from Hamas and Hezbollah.

    I also found pictures of the GreeK chi-xi-stigma. Absolutely fascinating that it matches the Arabic shahada (Islamic declaration of faith) worn on militant Islamists foreheads, forearms and that is scribbled like graffiti on the Dome of the Rock. That is real, physical evidence that is very compelling.

    For now, I think Ezekiel 38-39 describes a local Islamic warlord of sorts who employs surrounding Islamic nations to assist in a land and resources grab of Israel which fails after a God-inspired mass killing of each other (38:21) and what’s left of Gog’s army gets clobbered by a supernaturally assisted Israeli military victory (that happens to have similar results as a low altitude nuclear explosion) that results in Gog and his armies dying in large numbers but leaves the ground septic, poisonous for people to travel through.

    The victory glorifies the one, true God of Israel, and they have a revival of faith, where the world becomes aware of Israel’s supernatural help. Israel re-identifies itself with the Lord, who we understand is Jesus, though the text doesn’t seem to show association with Jesus at this time of prophetic events…unless I have missed something. I’m sure I miss much.

    I notice Gog’s army or coalition comes from the north, so it can’t be Iran (which would have to come from the east), but would probably be made up of Lebanon, Turkey, Syria, possibly Northern Iraq.

    This is an area I would like to have more clarification on, among others.

    Ezekiel 38-39 suggests to me that it is a unique event, distinct from and prior to the 2nd half of the 7 year tribulation period for several reasons, one of which is: In Ezekiel, they appear to be living securely (38:11) in unwalled villages and are the ones who bury Gog’s dead from the battle (39:12). In Revelation, the Jews are sent to the “wilderness” for 1260 days (3 1/2 years Rev 12:6) to hide in God’s supernatural protection. Seems like two very different states.. One a state of peace and living openly, the other a state of war and hiding for protection.

    I can only hold to the things that seem most plausible given their textual, grammatical and historical contexts, until new information is available or understood. As a student of prophecy and disciple (learner) of the Lord and Master Jesus Christ, I look forward to correction and hope to learn more as the day approaches.

    Please reply if you have comments to this post. Thanks very much. GOD bless and thanks for your courtesy and detailed replies.

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  7. ICA
    08/27/2012 at 10:55 PM

    John, “Either this beast is the beast of Rev 13:1 that ‘comes up out of the sea’ having 10 horns and 7 heads, or it is the second beast of Rev 13:11 that ‘comes up out of the earth’, with two horns.”

    Hi John, Yes. I think it is important to reiterate however that the seven heads of the first Beast represent historical kingdoms or empires that no longer exist. They provide for us an historical backdrop as a reference for us to draw from to help the reader understand John’s vision. John’s focus, however, appears to be on the head that received a mortal wound but was healed, not the other six. We now understand that the only head that would have been wounded and then revived could be the Islamic Empire with the abolition of the Caliphate when the seventh empire — the Islamic Ottoman Empire — came to an end. This revived head will be the controlling force of the final Beast empire.

    John, “If the first beast is Islam, then the second beast would have to be a being, either a human, a demon manipulated human, or an actual demon in human disguise (for we know satan can appear as an angel of light, why not other demonic creatures?)”

    Maybe, but I can’t really find anything in the text to preclude the second Beast from being another kingdom/empire/system that merely springs out from the first Beast. Since the first Beast is Islamic, the second is inextricably linked to it in order to exercise “all the authority of the first beast” (Rev 13:12). Is it a man? Maybe. Could it be the Caliphate? Maybe. It is something else? Maybe. We must watch all developments unfolding right now in the Middle East.

    John, “If the second beast is a being of some type, then that would explain his rather human characteristics, including the number (or multitude) of a ‘man’.”

    Sure, but equating the multitude of the Beast with the multitude of a man is not the same as equating the Beast as a man. Moreover, I think it’s best to understand the identity of the Beast and its multitude in view here as the first Beast (Islam). In other words, in Rev 13:14-15 it is the [second] Beast that is forcing the inhabitants of the earth to make an image unto and worship the [first] Beast, and to kill those who refuse. It is the [second] Beast in Rev 13:16-18 that is forcing the inhabitants of the earth to receive a “mark” in the right hand or forehead so that no one can buy or sell without this “mark”, or unless they have (hold/own/possess) the name of the [first] Beast, or the number of his [the first Beast’s] name (that which identifies or what one is called, eg, “Muslim”).

    John, “So far, it seems to fit, Islam happens to be 1/4 to 1/5 of the world’s population, quite a multitude.”

    I think we can ascertain conclusively that the Fourth Horseman of Revelation 6 is referring to Islam. The official colour of Islam is green. In Revelation 6:8 John describes the “fourth horseman of the Apocalypse” as being “chlōros”, literally translated as “green”. Green is the official color of Islam and is believed to have been Mohammed’s favorite. The “fourth horseman” is described as having power over the fourth part of the earth. Islam today has dominion over a fourth part of the earth. John describes the “fourth horseman” as having the power to “kill with sword.” Islam is spread through Jihad, the “Sword of Islam.”  The “fourth horseman” also kills with hunger/famine. Spiritual destitution aside, Islamists would even prefer to see children starve to death than have them receive life-saving aid from the “Christian West.” The “fourth horseman” kills with “death”, and the love of death in suicide and martyrdom operations against men, women and children for the cause of “Allah” permeates Islamic culture, so much that they openly declare to “love death more than you love life.” Lastly, the “fourth horseman” is described as killing with “the beasts of the earth.” The Greek word “thērion” here is, I believe, being used metaphorically to refer to “savage”, “brutal” and “bestial” men, a perfect description of what we see today in the radical world of Islam’s death seekers.

    John, “For now, I think Ezekiel 38-39 describes a local Islamic warlord of sorts who employs surrounding Islamic nations to assist in a land and resources grab of Israel which fails after a God-inspired mass killing of each other (38:21) and what’s left of Gog’s army gets clobbered by a supernaturally assisted Israeli military victory … The victory glorifies the one, true God of Israel, and they have a revival of faith, where the world becomes aware of Israel’s supernatural help.”

    Sometimes in order to arrive at the right answer, we need to ask the right questions.

    Let’s consider, if the position quoted above were correct, what this would infer. If Ezekiel 38-39 is simply describing a local Islamic warlord who employs the surrounding nations, then we must believe that all of the Magog nations that Christ destroys — nations that the text tells us in no uncertain terms will know from that point that the God of Israel is God (Ezek 38:16, 23; 39:7, 21, 23) — suddenly, conveniently all develop a case of collective amnesia to yet again form another coalition to yet again gather against Israel, only to yet again be destroyed by Christ a few short years later. But is that what the text is really telling us, especially considering the fact that Gog-Magog and Armageddon both end with a great earthquake, that Gog-Magog and Armageddon both experience great hailstones, that Gog-Magog and Armageddon are both followed by the “Feast of God” and that the armies of Gog-Magog are confused and attack each other, just as the armies at Armageddon are confused and attack each other?

    Ezekiel 39:7 and 39:22 says that God’s name will be known in the midst of Israel and that Israel will know their God from that day forward. The only way that Israel can know God is if they know Jesus as their Messiah. Galatians 5:4 makes it clear that those who simply try to be justified by the Law are estranged from Christ (and therefore God), so if Israel is to truly know the Lord their God “from that day forward” they must recognize Jesus (Yeshua) as the Messiah (Ha-Mashiach). In this context Ezek 39:29 tells us that the Lord pours out His spirit upon the house of Israel, and Zechariah 12:10 helps us to understand when this happens — after the Second Coming of Christ. Ezekiel 39:7 reinforces this by showing us that Christ is now physically present *in* Israel. Moreover, in Ezekiel 39:8, God declares “Behold, it is come, and it is done … this [is] the day whereof I have spoken.” When did the prophets ever write about a pre-Armageddon battle that mentions Christ physically present? How can the Lord declare that “it is done” if it really isn’t done until a few years later?

    John, “I notice Gog’s army or coalition comes from the north, so it can’t be Iran (which would have to come from the east), but would probably be made up of Lebanon, Turkey, Syria, possibly Northern Iraq.”

    Gog is from the north, however Ezekiel 38:5 says that “Persia, Cush and Put will be with them”, which are the modern day nations of Iran, North Sudan and Libya. So the truth of the matter is that nations with Gog include those from the north, the south, the east, and the west. Keep in mind, not only does Ezekiel mention these by name, he also writes that many peoples or nations are with Gog in the very next verse, as well as verse 15.

    John, “In Ezekiel, they appear to be living securely (38:11) in unwalled villages and are the ones who bury Gog’s dead from the battle (39:12). In Revelation, the Jews are sent to the “wilderness” for 1260 days (3 1/2 years Rev 12:6) to hide in God’s supernatural protection. Seems like two very different states.”

    These descriptions would be during different points of the war. One mentions the condition before the war, the other in the midst of it. Naturally, it would necessitate two different states.

    Hopes this helps! God bless …

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  8. John
    08/27/2012 at 11:30 PM

    ICA Very interesting! Thank you my friend for answering with such detail. And you made a very compelling case for Islam based on the 4th horseman as well. Even though some details on other passages and contexts are left to question, I think there is sufficient evidence from the text to strongly suggest Islam has pivotal role in end time events. I will remain alert, and watching.

    Question please: When the Jews go to the wilderness for 1260 days in Rev 12:6, they are under God’s supernatural protection yes? If Christians will be on the earth (or in the Middle Eastern location of which end times events take place) during either the first or second half of the tribulation period, does the text anywhere suggest that some Christians will be spared, or is it only Christians who are afflicted and worn down (Dan 7:25), and not the Jews? Why wouldn’t Christians have the same supernatural provision of protection during this awful time period?

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  9. Anonymous
    09/01/2012 at 11:56 AM

    Gog is the AC, yes…but he is indeed of Japhetic origin. Gog from the LAND OF MAGOG—these descendants of Japheth ( of Magog) migrated north of the Black Sea and settled Western Russia as well as what we know today as the EU/Europe. The actual Romans who founded and built the Roman Empire were Magogites, having migrated over the Alps into the Italian Peninsula around 1000 BC. The Caesars were Magogites. Magogites were later called Scythians, the ancestors of the Germanics. The AC will be “Germanic.” A Japhethite. He will not be a Muslim although being a master of deceipt will use whatever religions he wants to further his plan for world domination and later demand the world worhip him.

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  10. John
    09/01/2012 at 1:08 PM

    ICA, by the way that was a brief, but effective presentation of the post-Trib view over at Prophezine.

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  11. Anonymous
    09/01/2012 at 1:54 PM

    Anon – Joel Richardson’s article on the Scythians (which ICA has posted on this blog) is very detailed regarding this question. Good read, if you are interested.

    AHF

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  12. ICA
    09/01/2012 at 3:23 PM

    Almost missed this …

    John, “When the Jews go to the wilderness for 1260 days in Rev 12:6, they are under God’s supernatural protection yes?”

    The Church is supernaturally protected, yes (“… the gates of hell shall not prevail against it” Matt 16:18b), but this does not mean that Christians will not suffer or be killed for their faith (cf. Rev 13:7), as we can see today.

    John, “If Christians will be on the earth (or in the Middle Eastern location of which end times events take place) during either the first or second half of the tribulation period, does the text anywhere suggest that some Christians will be spared”

    Yes. Matthew 24:22 says, “And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake (eklektos G1588) those days will be shortened.” Scripture is clear who the elect are:

    Titus 1:1, “Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ for the faith of God’s elect (eklektos G1588) and the knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness …”

    Col 3:12, “Therefore, as the elect (eklektos G1588) of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering …”

    1 Pet 1:1-2, “Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, elect (eklektos G1588) according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.”

    1 Pet 2:9, “But you are a chosen (eklektos G1588) people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.”

    As believers in Jesus, we are called the elect.

    John, “… or is it only Christians who are afflicted and worn down (Dan 7:25), and not the Jews? Why wouldn’t Christians have the same supernatural provision of protection during this awful time period?”

    Both will be afflicted and worn down, as we can see today. Many are already being killed, and the Beast will continue to wage war against them — until the Deliverer comes. National Israel will be saved out of it. The Church will prevail.

    Romans 11:25b-26, “… blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: ‘The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;”

    Revelation 12:11, “And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.”

    Revelation 14:12, “Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.”

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