Home > Radical Islam, Wars and Rumors of War > Turkey Warns Against Shi’ite-Sunni Cold War, Encourages Close Contact With All Sides

Turkey Warns Against Shi’ite-Sunni Cold War, Encourages Close Contact With All Sides


Sensing a dangerous and deepening division within the Islamic kingdom, Turkish Foreign Minister Davutoglu is travelling to Iran in an effort to mend the Shia and Sunni lines of demarcation. But even if “al-Mahdi” were to arrive tonight and bring the two branches of Islam together under the banner of one mind, any apparent alliance would still be temporary, for what disunites the kingdom of Islam today will ultimately continue to disunite the kingdom of Islam tomorrow. Those who understand the times in which we live already know that this kingdom will remain fundamentally divided right up until the time when Messiah returns to remove it from the earth forever and establish His own everlasting Kingdom …

Daniel 2:41, “Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay…”

Ezekiel 38:21, “‘I will call for a sword against Gog throughout all My mountains,’ says the Lord GOD. ‘Every man’s sword will be against his brother.'”

 Daniel 2:45, “… And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.”

Reuters – “ANKARA – Middle East powerhouse Turkey on Wednesday warned against a sectarian Cold War in the region and said rising Sunni-Shi’ite tensions would be ‘suicide’ for the whole region.

‘Let me openly say that there are some willing to start a regional Cold War,’ Foreign Minster Ahmet Davutoglu told state-run Anatolian news agency before heading to Shi’ite Iran.

‘We are determined to prevent a regional Cold War. Sectarian regional tensions would be suicide for the whole region,’ Davutoglu said, adding such effects would last for decades.

‘Turkey is against all polarizations, in the political sense of Iran-Arab tension or in the sense of forming an apparent axis. This will be one of the crucial messages that I will take to Tehran.’

Majority Sunni Turkey, which borders Iran, Iraq and Syria, has attempted to play a moderating role as rivals Shi’ite Iran and Sunni powerhouse Saudi Arabia jockey for influence in a region undergoing sweeping changes brought on by ‘Arab Spring’ popular uprisings.

Davutoglu is expected to hold talks in Tehran later on Wednesday on Iran’s nuclear program and developments in neighboring Iraq and Syria.” Read more.

Flashback: Arab Spring Begins Weeding Out Christians as Sunni and Shia Ideologies Lock Horns Over Control of New Islamic Kingdom – “Islamic factions jockeying for position from out of the ashes of the Arab Spring are posing an increased threat to Middle East Christians, an international human rights group contends… The Ayatollah Khamenei told the listeners the Arab Spring was guided by Islam and said Muslims worldwide should rally to the Islamic cause… Ayatollah Khamenei’s call for an Islamic power bloc fits together with the objectives of other Islamic groups and countries. ‘Iran’s jihadist objectives are exactly the same as al-Qaida, the Muslim Brotherhood and Turkey. Indeed, the Iranian leadership was among the first, most consistent and most vocal of supporters of the ‘Islamic Awakening … the Iranians want to be the ones seen as the leaders of the jihadi movement,’ Lopez said.” Read more.

Flashback: Muslim Brotherhood Calls for a ‘United Arab States’ with Jerusalem as its Capital – “In this recent video, the Muslim Brotherhood’s Dr. Safwat Hegazy, a popular preacher, talks about how he yearns to see Arab nations become ‘like the United States’—for them to unify into the ‘United Arab States.’ While that may sound like an admirable (or at least neutral) goal, bear in mind what he is alluding to: the resurrection of a caliphate—which by nature exists to expand, including through jihad.” Read more.

Flashback: Saudi King Calls for the Formation of a Sunni Arab Super State Into One Unified Diplomatic and Military Confederation – “King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia formally called for the formation of a Gulf Union on a backdrop of regional unrest and growing tensions with rival Iran. ‘I ask today that we move from a phase of cooperation to a phase of union within a single entity,’ Abdullah said during his address at the opening session of the six-member Gulf Cooperation Council conference in Riyadh.” Read more.

  1. 01/05/2012 at 10:19 AM

    Hardly a “cold” (Davotoglu’s words) war: http://news.yahoo.com/attacks-targeting-shiites-kill-72-iraq-143525409.html

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  2. ICA
    01/05/2012 at 11:01 AM

    Very bad situation over there. Iraqi Shi’ites could begin looking towards Iran if the Iraqi gov’t is unable to guarantee their security.

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  3. Willard
    01/05/2012 at 3:19 PM

    ICA The Septuagint Bible in Dan 2:32 – 33 adds to or includes in the silver chest and arms the HANDS as well which have ten fingers?? Not sure why the NIV or other bibles omit the HANDS?

    Do you think that the reference to hands which include the ten fingers in the Septuagint could connect with the ten toes at the end of days??

    What I am thinking is that this may be pointed evidence that Iran will be the key player in uniting the ten nations or the ten horns which does seem to be what is playing out in the ME with the Muslim Brotherhood. It is also the Shiites that are waiting for the Mahdi ?

    Also the fact that the Shiites have always been a much smaller sect historically than the Sunnis also may be pointing to the fact that “HE STARTED SMALL” ?? and grew through deceit and ruthlessness – this seems to be fitting Iran perfectly today as they are full of deceit especially there nuclear program and intentions – Just seems to be a warning light shining on the horizon here ??

    Dan 2:32 It was an image, the head of which was of fine gold, its hands and breast and arms of silver, its belly and thighs of brass, 33 its legs of iron, its feet, part of iron and part of earthenware.

    The NIV

    Da 2:32 The head of the statue was made of pure gold, its chest and arms of silver, its belly and thighs of bronze

    Willard

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  4. 01/05/2012 at 3:45 PM

    The Masoretic text has the Aramaic word דרע dĕra`(h1872), which has a single definition, “arm”, and the word occurs only once, in this verse, in the entire Bible.

    http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H1872&t=KJV

    Interestingly, the blue letter bible now also shows the Septuagint text, but I cannot read Greek. They say they have begun preparatory work on the LXX, presumably to take it to the same level, with word by word breakdowns, as the Hebrew OT and Greek NT.

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  5. Willard
    01/05/2012 at 4:22 PM

    kurt – What are your thoughts on the words hands though – It is an English version of the Greek bible no doubt but why was the word HANDS stuck in there ??

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  6. 01/05/2012 at 6:50 PM

    I think it was either an editorial or “paraphrasical” translation on the part of the translators when they were creating the LXX. Perhaps that translation could have some merit because they were thousands of years closer to the colloquial use of the word “dera” than we are. Personally I wouldn’t get hung up on it; it seems like a minor detail to me.

    I waver back and forth (still) on the identity of the fourth beast. I’ve abandoned the idea of the RCC/papacy as the harlot/AC, but there’s still compelling reasons to me to identify Daniel’s terrible fourth beast with the Roman Empire rather than Islam… I’m just not totally convinced yet either way. I’m still reading a very detailed evangelical commentary on Daniel that mentions Islam as one of the possibilities but the author still backs the Rome interpretation.

    The 10 nations/horns of Chapter 7 and the 10 toes of Chapter 2 IMO don’t necessarily mean exactly 10 nations or kings, sorry to say. It could just carry the meaning of “many”, or “the right or complete amount”.

    So, if the terrible 4th beast was Rome (not the RCC), and the 10 nations/horns “come out” of that Beast Empire, then I think it could still hold that the little horn/AC is some Islamic “Mahdi” figure, and toes of iron/clay could be Sunni/Shia.

    I do see the following from Rev 17:10-11:

    The seven heads [kings]
    are seven mountains [kingdoms]
    on which the woman sits [false bride/religions]
    and they are seven kings [self-interpreting–not the seven hills of Rome!!]
    five have fallen [Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece]
    one is [Rome]
    the other has not yet come [Islam/Ottoman (?) Perhaps Islam in general and not Ottoman in particular?]
    and when he comes, he must remain a little while. [A long while]
    The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth [wound that was healed–restoration of a pan-Islamic Caliphate]
    and is one of the seven [Islam comes back into power]
    and he goes to destruction. [Amen]

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  7. Willard
    01/06/2012 at 3:27 PM

    Kurt – How can you reconcile Rome with Dan 8 where the 4 horns replaced the one that was broken off (Alexanders 4 generals) and the Little Horn came up from amongst these 4 – this in my mind pretty much eliminates Rome other than maybe as a False Prophet – I cannot see Rome in the book of Daniel as an empire in Dan 2 – the only place that I can see it is in the Bronze thighs

    I see the bronze belly as Greece which sort of died but still carried on as Greco-Rome – in many ways there was and is not a lot of difference between the 2 and they did become the western and eastern churches – Even still today we see both of the bronze thighs running side by side language, the bible, politics like Greek democracy the Roman senate – architecture remember Obama’s inauguration was a Greek show – even still today Greece is playing its part in history even if it is as a Greek tragedy

    Like the horn that was uprooted the knees could represent broken or bent or change of direction and more and more I am thinking that the iron legs are the Sunni / Shiite as the iron goes into the feet and mixes at the end of days with the clay. After all Islam did come out of the ancient Roman and Greek lands and their rulers the four Greek generals and the Roman Legions which destroyed Jerusalem in 70 AD. Islam has entrenched itself throughout the land of the seven churches and Europe and we should not be greatly surprised if the FP does not come out of the christian world be it Greek or be it Roman. After all John Paul II did kiss the Koran and chruches today are be receptive to Islam in many places

    They clay may or may not represent man and his religion Islam as man was created from dust or clay – and if we really look at the iron legs we could connect them to all of the millions of tons of military hardware mostly made from iron – they have and are being sold Iron upon iron, then we have the oil fields iron upon iron being used, and than we have those massive construction projects throughout the ME again iron up iron being used, than we have those massive super oil tankers which again have hundreds of thousands of tons of steel or iron – but than we also have the main point I think and that is THE SWORD OF ISLAM also iron that destroys

    What I find interesting and intriguing about the iron legs is that they do not have a number until we arrive at the feet and it is empire 4 – the bronze belly and thighs are empire 3 –

    Regards the hands – I am not stuck on the hand with the ten fingers but I do think that it may be a small piece of the over all puzzle pointing to Persia and Iran

    Wilard

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  8. 01/07/2012 at 1:35 AM

    Here’s some info from the commentary I’m reading, “The Prophecy of Daniel” by Edward Young, 1949–yes its old; I think I got it at a garage sale in the late ’90s. Young says the little horn of Daniel 7 is not the same as the one in Daniel 8:

    Daniel 7 Little Horn

    – Arises from among the ten horns on the fourth beast, the resulting kingdoms from the Roman Empire (v8)
    – The horn doesn’t grow like the one in 8:9 (v8)
    – It makes war with the saints and prevails (v21)
    – Its littleness draws attention to its eyes and mouth (v8)
    – 3 of the 10 horns were pulled out by the roots before it (v8)
    – This horn speaks boastful words (v11)
    – Judgment was passed on the horn and the kingdom was given to the saints (v22)
    – This little horn arising from the ten that issue from the fourth beast, will be “different” from the previous ones and will subdue three kings (v24)
    – He will speak out against the Most High and wear down his saints (v25)
    – He will try to make changes in times and laws (v25)
    – They will be delivered for a “time, times and half a time”. Young’s interpretation of this is, more or less, ‘it will take time, then it will seem like a really long time, then the end will come suddenly, in 1/2 a time.’ (v25)

    Young believes the Chapter 7 horn is the Antichrist, but doesn’t identify the Pope, the Catholic Church or Nero as the AC. He seems to be able to consider that the fourth beast is Rome, and that after a ’10 out of 10 fulness of kingdoms’ (I’m paraphrasing him) come and go, the AC will arise. He sees the AC as being yet future. I don’t think this precludes an Islamic AC/end-time Beast.

    Daniel 8 Little Horn

    – The ram has two horns representing the Medes and Persians. The longer horn comes up last–Cyrus and the Persians (v3)
    – The ram “butts” or pushes west, south and north, the direction of their greatest conquests (v4)
    – A he-goat comes from the west–Greece; its feet don’t touch the earth–its fast; the conspicuous horn–Alexander (v5)
    – Greece triumphs over Medo-Persia (v6-7)
    – The one horn broke into four–Cassander, Lys., Seluecus and Ptolemy (v8)
    – A little horn grew up from one of the four–Antiochus Epiphanes (AE) from Seleucus. This horn grows, unlike the horn of Chapter 7. It grew toward “the Desire” or the “Beautiful Land”, NASB (v9)
    – The host of heaven/stars–the people of God, see Jer 33:22, Ex 7:4, 12:41, Heb 11:13-16, 2 Macc 9:10 (v10)
    – AE takes away the daily sacrifice for 1290 days (Dan 12:11) from 168-165 BC (v11)
    – Truth is cast to the ground–this verse is difficult to translate from Heb; translations vary on its meaning (v12)
    – How long will all this last? (v13)
    – 2300 evenings and mornings, or ‘days’, Approx. 171 BC, when AE was in Egypt and preparations were made for his return by laying waste to the temple to 165 or even 164, the death of AE (v14)

    So that sums up what Mr. Young (and of course many others) thinks about the two little horns–they are different characters. One certainly foreshadows the other, but one is specific to Antichrist and the other to AE.

    At this point I don’t see a reason to disagree with him. Unless I’m missing something it doesn’t fundamentally change the Islamic end time paradigm.

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  9. Willard
    01/07/2012 at 5:44 PM

    What we need Kurt is a site to specificaly study on the book of Daniel and other books like Revelation etc. Where thoughts and ideas could be exchanged from various sources

    Dan 8:3 tells us that the long horn grew up later like maybe the last days because as we read chap 8 it referres to last days numerous times – I think the long horn that grew up later may be Persia we see today in Iran – I this there is too much emphethess place on Anitotious and what he is supposed to have done – I think should get some prophetic credit but I think that he gets to much credit for the part he played than he deserves

    8:8 tells us that th rams horn was broke off – a ram or a tup is a male sheep and belongs to the sheep family where as a goat is a Billy or a Buck – also satan is often dipicted as a goat?
    Four horns replaced it are the 4 general and the lands they ruled even into todays world and one out of these horns grew up until it reached the host of heaven and set itself up against the Prince of host which must be Christ may be the Mahdi and Islam

    In 8:13 the question is asked how long will this take and we are told in v.14 that it will take 2300 evenings and mornings. This 2300 evening and mornings has been much debated as to what it really means. I am not saying this is the answer but it fits as well as any argument that I have heard – In 332 BC Alexander took Judah and Jerusalem with out a battle just like general Allenby did in 1917 when he took Jerusalem from the Ottoman Turks – from 332 BC to 1967 when temple mount was retaken is 2300 years with zero year removed.

    Does this fit – I think it may and the reasons are because v. 17 tells us that it concerns the time of the end. Following are numerous referances that this chapter 8 points to the last days prophecy including the 2300 evenings and mornings

    Da 8:17 ………….. “understand that the vision concerns the time of the end

    Da 8:19 ………..I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end

    Da 8:23 “In the latter part of their reign, ………………

    Da 8:24 He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed in whatever he does. He will destroy the mighty men and the holy people

    Da 8:26 “The vision of the evenings and mornings that has been given you is true, but seal up the vision, for it concerns the distant future………………..

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  10. 01/08/2012 at 12:30 AM

    Willard,

    I understand your reasoning on “the time of the end”, but even the “end times” are not “the end, end, end times”–that falls after the millennium, in my view, prior to the “new heavens and earth”. I think something that occurs hundreds of years in the future from Daniel’s perspective, since he was writing about a vision he had, would qualify as “the time of the end”.

    Even Paul used “in these last days” in Hebrews 1:2, and it is clear most new testament believers thought they were in the final days. By the context of chapter 8, it is clear to me that this prophecy refers only to the Greek overthrow of the Medo-Persians and the activities of Antiochus in Israel.

    Also, my math is really bad, but I believe if you remove the “zero year” from the span of time from 332 BC to 1967 AD you get 2298, and that’s in solar years.

    I have a lot more to learn about Daniel; I don’t hold myself out as any kind of expert, just sort of “know enough to be dangerous”. But I am certainly learning more and more, and am interested in the topic.

    Kurt

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  11. Willard
    01/08/2012 at 11:56 AM

    Yes – even Daniel got a head ache trying to figure it out

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